Panel on Secular Morality (part 1/7)

Oh open your eyes geez with an open mind you may be surprised yeah you Mr Clarke is just the start light in your mine the first one is why is it that in these kind of can everybody hear him we're all going to have to cut up we're gonna have microphones why is it that in these kinds of debates on know people try to avoid infinite regrets likewise I like an automatic you lose it something goes into an infinite regress like like the beginning of the universe why couldn't it just regress infinitely by quite a people maybe take a quick stand at that one if we're talking about versions of arguments for the existence of God where oh you know they're there had to be a beginning to the natural universe right now you know you're being you're being set up by the theologian right because then the trap would be well what is the cause of that natural thing it must be something non-natural right so you're being forced into a dilemma why can't it just be more nature is of course The Naturalist for Claude now be careful we can't prove and Matt was very good at saying we don't yet know or even have a glimmering of what the right answer might be like of where the Big Bang came from its The Naturalist hypothesis that science should try to you know give a naturalistic explanation indeed science has been doing a marvelous job so for all we know is probably more nature right the supernaturalists aware that wants to say no no it can't be just more nature you're claiming that it must be infinitely more nature either infinite the scope or infinite time and then versions of the argument for example the Kalam cosmological argument which has been making some fuss lately with William Lane Craig says in this is a take on one of the classic arguments from Aquinas it's impossible for the human mind to conceive of an infinite series of events that would have had to happen on the naturalistic hypothesis before the Big Bang since it's impossible to conceive of this infinite there must be some definite beginning that's the start of nature and that's why you need a God behind it it can't just be more nature now notice this premise it's impossible to conceive of an infinite series leading up to a specific time and they make a big fuss out of this well actually that's the definition of an infinity if you could conceive of it it wouldn't be an infinite quantity right man mathematicians will tell you whether you can conceive of it is they're actually irrelevant to whether it might actually be the case in other words nature might out run our capacity to imagine it now at this point the theologian goes berserk and says no God's easier to imagine val value thank God and suddenly becomes eternal timeless and all this other even more hyper imaginary things so the safer thing is to just be you know a skeptical naturalist and be content which is trying to explore more nature don't let that theologian scare you is with trying to conceive infinities you're not supposed to try that's that's the mathematical funny the hell no the probably the dominant like how our universe came into this is naturally is the multiple universe or multiverse it postulates to their number the constantly producing for example the black hole forums or wormhole forms that this one a new universe this could be happening all around see the little miniature black holes might be able to do this and what feels will say is wants to likely our being other universes you're bringing it all the tether and complexity the thing is the point of that is that what's the chance this is the only universe in all the existence statistically that's as close to zero as you can get almost certainly there are more visible more than one universe and if you have more than one there's no particular remember you're going to get you're going to get infinity so and also there are all sorts of theories that that predict multiple universes relativity does gravitational theories string theory quantum theory there's just a whole bunch of scientific lines that indicate that there are multiple universes so you just don't need a God God get God's get into the way the other way there's an extra intervention of it don't make sense so why are we avoid it it's because it's messy there's a number of different ways represented just on this panel own you were doing mathematician tiny magnets we point out that you're wrong to you consider infinity of quantity to a symptom that the quantity already violates what it is so yeah it's messy and it's unnecessary and we already know that the arguments that are you the try to make use of that are are fallacious on their face that it's like saying you can't conceive with an infinity but I can it's kind of what they end up trying to do and so I the only one who does not to bite what more well actually it occurs to me that we might try to proceed around room and give every table a chance the next table is back here yeah go ahead the father kind of implied during the debate that that you're somehow different or more moral than others that he turned part of the new atheist movies more more than me um I tend to disagree with that but I i was i was just wondering what your thoughts were on that due to how you think you fit in with the and identify with the other atheists i think he had limited interaction with me and I was who I am and who I am is there are days on the show where I'm a prick and I acknowledge there's there are times when I will you call people names i think it's usually deserved and I think it's when I've reached my limit I think he saw by and large in me somebody who a fellow quote-unquote truth seeker someone who I don't think he could argue with about what I was actually saying a lot of what he said to me seemed as if let me throw some poetry on this and an appalled assertion about the beauty of God had the beauty of beauty and were done and so it wasn't until he did something that I considered just extremely poor form that he even got a hint of another side of me so I don't think I'm different or better already I think he wasn't in a position to assess who I was and the key was making it really quick to judgment about Who I am and I think he got it partly right I recently became a non-believer Bullock over the past few years and Eastern Orthodoxy was catch the last bridge that I hit calling it Jesus your baby work on that um and so I was expecting this to be an interesting debate because there's some ways in which orthodoxy is the anti rationalism in the the intellectual framework for it is non-western and I think that a lot of how that sprint is going to become more popular or play kind of post modern Christianity were some reason what you felt like we were surprised by things that he said and ways in which you think that it was challenging rhetorically so your response I was talking about dreams I I was apart from him the closing I was most when when I asked questions and didn't get an answer early on and later I came to understand a lot and he explained it in this ed not being a letter list his free to say that the for example the writings about slavery represent bad Jewish law and don't actually remember I'm coming from I promised it background in the city all your air thing for just saying that because this is the inspired Word of God every word of it it's right there in the New Testament this is a difference in what review about religion so that frustration of not getting an answer was kind of he used to since I realized why it didn't happen I don't know I think I think there were times you know it didn't surprise me did the bombshell at the end was the only thing that actually surprised me he's Emmitt secularism lead to gulags used a prediction or part a lot of blood religion member she's our hidden what did you give their place principal called like using a portable turned out yeah who knows what he does it was a long history of no I I sometimes I'd across the country and interstate interchanges you find it orange dots and the heartland of America the Christian part of the country though they're the Pope's kept mistresses may and so on and so forth it's a common problem that I have Christians is they may claim be people a principle and they won't get into sleaze real quick it was an inner there was a debate between the Hitchens he was no such a great man it was just he's got cancer he was to make the favorite valinsky Malinsky comes across as very arched personal matter professor and he was getting asthma sleazy comments about how atheists wipe these books to make money that's called a bowl these people can get but I think the counter artist you really want to make money off the religion you do what you are not Eastern religion or you know like a Richard oh look more on or whatever and culture or bill already doing our religious book then you make the big bucks big bucks the identity the comment about the porn thing I don't want to make him out to be under various thing and I think he was but you're right there is a kind of sleaziness to it because on the one hand he was willing to put me in a category is different from perhaps I just have to do Dan important Iowa but did this idea that that secularism leads to this and then it's something wrong first I don't think there's anything wrong with it I think we haven't established as a matter of course in the debate that there's anything wrong with somebody watching porn I've been sending adult watching another continual at saks Hank if you're going to say it's wrong you need to demonstrate way it's wrong so there's this insinuation that it's wrong and any linking it to a lack of moral sentence with no justification behind the song just fall desertion I think there are scientific their scientific evidence that watching porn people's heart rate their stress it has an ill effect on the body whereas a is life system there are also studies that show that since the availability of porn has gone up the great great heads degrees but in any case can say it doesn't mean one day morning anchor Ingham and in a case here's the thing there's an insinuation it comes not just from him but from others that there are these things that they deem the evil in the world and that they are somehow tied to those of us who represent perhaps somewhere between one and fourteen percent of the population are somehow responsible for the eighty to ninety percent of the porn good job guys

Poor audio ๐Ÿ™ Utah is the biggest consumer of porn, the Mormon state. One of the fundamental flaws of religious thinking is that minorities cause the problems the majority causes. These people cause their own problems in society and then blame other people for it. They blame everything but themselves. They blame witches and then torture and murder the people they accuse without any evidence at all. And the point people are trying to make here is that we need research, study, and reasons. We need evidence. We need as much information as we can get on any subject before we can decide things. The scape-goat scheme is over. End of this. Go back to the caves, nobody is stopping you, but don't drag unwilling people with you okay. Thanks.

I agreed wit most of what was said except the porn part. I disagree that there hasn't been a decent argument against porn. the fact is its similiar 2 prostitution and the fact is it spreads disease. injurying, scarring, irritating, painful disease. deadly disease in some cases. r we allowed 2 use needles in the hospital? no. r we allowing porn stars 2 date the public yes. this is a problem that's not addressed by making it illegal. it is morally wrong in that disease is a negative impact

there is some scientific evidence that high rate quickens whilst watching, no shit sherlock! what a fucking moron. so whats the point? …and how do that poss relate to faith? if you have faith do u know have the same emotions? what numbnut!

it is contradictory to claim that god or gods exist and are unknowable if a god is unknowable, it cannot be known to exist; but to assert that a god exists๏ปฟ is to claim that this god is known to exist. This argument has problems. To be sure, if one did claim that a god's existence is knowable and a god's nature is unknowable and indeed incomprehensible, one would have no basis for worshipping this god or attributing any moral attributes to the god

Christians believe "God" created everything from "nothing".
Naturalists say what Lucretius said, ex nihilo nihil fit: nothing comes from nothing, which means NOT created, which means there is NO "God".


Those studies are one-sided studies. They only show you what they WANT you to see. Speaking as an addict, myself, I know that I'm not desensitized to sex-crimes. I feel equally repulsed by rape and sexual abuse.
There's nothing wrong with the occasional view of pornography, as long as you don't replace your relationship to others with it. Then, it becomes a problem.

@secularUMBC ,may i ask, where does this, or do these types of debate occur and how may i find out when they occur and where? To join these debates, what are the qualifications?


Very, very funny. I was gonna type that in as a comment but you got there first.

That must mean that most of the women I lust over are atheists. Not just beauty but brains too.

There are studies that show that porn desensitizes people to sex crime. But that's also true with other things like violence and crime.

@SlykRyk666 There is a weird assumption that there *ought* to be nothing and stuff *shouldn't* exist. Thus, something has to happen for anything of any kind to 'be'.

Perhaps it's completely normal and natural for there to be Existence. Even First Cause people have to say there must have always been a God, so why could there not have always been 'stuff'.

I dont "think" it's meesy if you start with the basic premise that nothingness is an impossibility. In order to prove the first cause argument you first need to prove it's basic premise, the existence of nothing ! Good luck.

@PokeRapper5000 For everyone who wants to know the intro song:
Listen to Reason – Bryan Steeksma

"Scientific studies say….watching porn increases the heart rate and stress…"
That's right, the equivalent of a moderate walk, in other words, staring at a pair of ripe breasts gives you the equivalent workout of a nice relaxing walk. Not exactly detrimental LOL!

Does anybody know the title and the band of the song in the opening? I would like to enjoy more of that. ๐Ÿ™‚

hi Orthodox lurkers: pay close attention. This is free thinking and commenting in action. Learn. ๐Ÿ™‚

@secularUMBC ๐Ÿ˜‰ Yeah. Another:

attendee: I became an atheist a year ago…
Matt: Have you sacrificed a baby yet?

Ooh, great discussion so far, and very nicely done on the editing for the title sequence! Looking forward to seeing the rest!


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