Judaism & Secularism in Israel ✡️
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should be we're already live on Facebook – people say let us know how the audio is if you're on Facebook I think we're also live on YouTube let me double check where's my headset no where's here let us know how the audio is if you're listening to us ok can you say something yeah so the everyone sees us now are we all ready yeah we are live we are live on Facebook and on YouTube as well I see we have a so hi everyone please please let me know it's my audio great not very well as well perfect we're live everywhere oh beaches in the utility you are life great fantastic ok can you introduce yourself and let everybody know what we're talking about yes so my name is Yvonne burger I mean Israeli living in Australia now but I've lived in Israel for 37 years I'm a third-generation Israeli Jewish atheist and the reason I decided this this whole thing started with five minutes video that I put on a theater public video report page but then I felt that five minutes were not enough and I actually put a lot of things aside and and I chose to speak about it because when I went on the web looking at atheist websites and other website acts I saw there was a lot of a great deal of misconception regarding Israel and the role of religion and the Jewish religion in Israel and a lot of misconception a misconception misconception about a Judaism and what does it mean to be a Jew and an atheist at the same time so that was that was how things started okay great so what are some issues that you have a problem what are some misconceptions that we're going to touch on today I saw you getting a refresher especially on atheist Republic's Facebook page I think you got frustrated with some of their opinions people have so I'll tell you the first the first thing that project hit me was that your friend Ally thought that it never snows in Israel it's actually snot in Jerusalem two days ago so you can tell he you know people think that about Tehran in Iran as well so one time I posted a picture of one of the women in Iran holding their job on a stake as a protest against predatory job and other people said this is fake because there's no no like no I got expose there every winter I guess that we couldn't go to school because sometimes because of all the snow but going yeah yeah so other other things that I've noticed people have this view of Israelis like as if it's a kind of a of a Jewish Ayatollah regime so you know you have to you're to follow their religion I once I heard someone saying that you you have to be circumcised in Israel or that it's illegal to to mix marry in Israel which is a very very inaccurate and I think people most people perceive Israel as being more religious than what it is and most people don't get get the term Jewish state wrong they because they don't make the definition between a Jewish nation and a Jewish religion they although you and Ali actually I think touch that and explain the difference so these were the main things that got me involved so what I thought what what I thought I'll do is I just start with a bit of a timeline of Israel and and the role of religion in it and then you can just keep asking me questions about okay I'm gonna try to challenge you as much as possible sometimes it's gonna be in my actual real opinion if I'm challenging you and sometimes it might not be my opinion I'm just playing devil's advocate just to make sure that we have people because I've heard a lot of opinions at for and it gives Israel so I hope I could do a fair job at representing as much as possible and I hope people in the live chat if the if you think if there's anything you want to bring up that I'm not bringing it up let me know and I'll try to bring it up I'm looking at both the Facebook live chat and the YouTube live chat I feel Matt you by the way hi Michael McKean all right good yeah so I'll start I'll start with the year 1947 where the area was called the British Mandate of Palestine and the UN came with the came with the idea that they might they might might invite the country between a Jewish and an Arab state and now the zionists design is done is our Jews that that follow the idea of national liberation for the Jewish people so they perceive Jews as a nation and they perceive a the modern modern-day Israel as the historical homeland of the Jewish people that's where the Jewish people is connected historically not necessarily because of a divine promise but because of history and archaeology and they wanted this state to to come to come alive they wanted to have a Jewish state but they needed to have the ultra-orthodox Jews and I'll explain in a minute what is ultra-orthodox Jews a to their side they couldn't have Jews coming to the UN and say no we don't want to stay so they had to come to some kind of a compromise as for what would be the role of religion in this state it couldn't be a normal state separating religion and state because then the ultra-orthodox wouldn't like it so they they came to a compromise that is known today in Israel is the status quo and the status quo I mentioned before in my five minutes with you only two components I'm going to mention three now status quo has has three components the first one is the Sabbath second one is personal status marriage divorce etc and the third one is the kosher kosher food looks fear kosher so we can Sabbath kosher food and personal status marriage divorce etc and those are the things that what are these things exact okay so these are the main the main issues where they're compromise has been reached about how would the role of religion in the state because currently in Israel the monopoly on personal status is given to the rabbinical institutions or if you are a Muslim to a Sharia institution if you're a Christian to the church but it's a religious institution that deals with declaring you married or divorced doesn't sound very secular it's done so very secular at all and then let's say if you're a mixed couple let's say you want to get married and you know with someone out of your religion then you have to go overseas get married there come back to Israel and so show the Ministry of Interior your marriage certificate and then they will recognize you as married but but in Israel if you want to marry outside of your religion you can't do it unless the only exception is because the Muslim man can marry a Jewish lady or a Christian lady they can do it in a Sharia Court so a Muslim man can go to a Sharia Court in Israel and marry his Jewish lover but a Jew who wants to marry a Muslim woman they will have to go overseas get married may usually they do it in Cyprus and then come back can we can we rewind a little bit because you made a claim that this is because this is a Jewish state because of historical claims not because of religion yes that's not necessarily so this is a biblical claim that did you have this is a religious claim that they have over oh no no but there is history a part apart from the Bible telling you things there is also history that supports it so in reading story in Co Josephus I mean if we want if we want to go by history then the then the Iranians could be like well then Iraq is ours you know Afghanistan is ours and you know then the Americans have to leave the United States because that was in theirs I mean people move around and nobody can go back and be like well thousand seven years ago we were here so this is ours now I mean I don't understand the historical argument it's but it seems to me that I mean the original Zionists were very secular and they were they were they were they were looking for a homeland anywhere it depends who won the main the main figure in the main figure in political Zionism was an atheist Theodore Herzl right and he's remained his main concern was he was actually at the beginning he wasn't designed he was just a a Jew who wanted to assimilate in his society and then and he was a reporter in a in an Austrian newspaper and he went to cover the Dreyfus trial I don't know if you heard of it but the Dreyfus Alfred Dreyfus was a Jewish officer in the French army that was falsely accused in treason and Theodore Herzl Herzl went to cover that and he saw the crowds not shouting death to the traitor but rather shouting death to the Jew and then he said okay yeah we have this guy here he tried to do his best to assimilate it didn't help him then we must find a place where Jews will be the majority and they will have a country of their own that was his idea so when he was offered any land he thought it was a good idea it was any piece of land that you can come and and have didn't give a shit where they get where the Jews go well no it hurts it hurts no Herzl was only one person there were other signs basically he's very that's where he started yeah but he he wasn't the first but he was the most effective and prominent one they were other there were other Jews that thought about coming to going back to a modern day Israel Herzl was the one that many consolidated to an effective political movement but Herzl himself but yeah but do you agree that originally people didn't care like the origin the first movement they just realized that it seems like wherever Jews are there always oppressor always discriminated against they can't it doesn't seem like they acts especially at that time I mean still today but even way worse at that time there's nowhere that they could be accepted as part of the society so they were like okay fuck it we just need to have a place for our and they were gonna be would be they would have been happy with anywhere but the only reason the only reason why they picked Israel was because of religion like no that's the main reason why that's the main reason obviously the religious ones that was the reason for them but I will let when we touch the ultra-orthodox I'll explain to you that they actually opposed down ISM on religious grounds so in their case religion was the reason why not to have a state but yeah yeah we have those are a minority that's we do have that but that's not that big okay but but the Jews they the reason Jews wanted to come back to modern-day Israel was not only even Jews they didn't believe in the religion at all acknowledged historically that that that was where Jews came from how does that our network though like – everybody does everybody has a claim over the land that their ancestors thousands of years come from I mean my ass alas all right everyone's ancestors at some point came from Africa I guess we could all go like take effort well I guess I well I'll put it this way you can then argue whether the claim is justified or not right but what but the the nature of the argument will no longer be a religious one it could be a historical one and ethnic one so let's say you want the can we say it's both at least sorry can we say it's like like both of these arguments exist both the religious are they both they both exist but they if you talk about people like ben-gurion the first Prime Minister of Israel or Theodor Herzl they they didn't come and said God gave up his land they didn't mention God at all in their writings they didn't K they they met they spoke about the land only in historical terms they didn't make they didn't care about the religion divine promise I would dare say that the faith first five prime ministers of Israel were either atheist or very secure actually I'm traditional co-ceo my key is pointing out something very interesting you think we're in early Zionists just following the trend of nationalism just like other ethnic groups such as European very because this is this is a time where people were just handing out in Asia has like like candy left and right people were joking I think exactly I think it's a very very valid point I think the the Zionist movement was very clever in understanding the the political language of its time and that and once because the national language was the language spoken in the geopolitical reality of the time they they were very effective in defining their goals in those terms and they said okay so we also have the right for self-determination we are also a nation and and based on us being a nation and we also claim to go back to our to our homeland but problem okay so for example the Kurds weren't very successful the Kurds were at that time also we're trying to get their own nation but they weren't very successful did they a lot of people managed to get like Saudi Arabia was born as a country Iraq was made up by just drawing up border Iraq and Saudi Arabia are different stories completely coincide the Arabia is just a dynasty Iraqi was supposed to be a kind of an a Iraqi nation or something right right baby I'm just saying this is this was the time to grab a nation if you it this was the time to grab a nation if you may say but and you had to speak the language if you wanted to grab your nation you hadn't know how to speak the language but the unique thing about Israel unlike all these other people it was these were people already there they were like hey can we draw borders around us and making this our nation and the people that won the war were like okay fine this is your nation but but the Jews were like different from everybody else because they were like somewhere else and they were like can we can we can we go there and grab a nation everybody would me yeah yes so so what what you Jews were done Zionist movement did actually there were always there were always some Jews in the country there was never a point in history it was completely empty of Jews but what the Zionist movement started doing the deans go right away and claimed let's have a state here they they started migrating back to the country buying property in the country but and then any but at a certain point when they saw the time was right they thought they could use it and then claim a statehood in in the country or part of it because even modern-day Israel is not considered part of the historical did they actually buy it or they just turn along today I cover land up until 1948 up until they couldn't get it otherwise anyway if they didn't have the power even if they wanted to steal them and they couldn't because didn't have the the the means up until 1948 all the land that Jews had was purchased right after after the after the country was established a lot of a lot of land that was before state on so it was it by the British men that now became state owned by the State of Israel and on top of that the State of Israel took measures to grab land and not necessarily by acquisition so they confiscated it or they used land of the Arabs that fled the country and they said okay they're not here at are we gonna grab this land but but before 1948 before the country the state was established all the land the Jews set on it was landed they bought how much do you agree that a lot of religion was used to justify the grabbing of lands the grabbing of lands like this like like their religious people had a lot of influence in Israeli politics and different Israel different parties in the in Israel is very has to you know listen to a lot of religious forces within its own community and a lot of these religious opinions in Israel have the opinion that this these lands are theirs have been given to them by God it's not it oh yeah they're not shiny they're not they're not making a secret of it the religious right wing in Israel is is very outspoken about saying that they this land belongs to us because of the religion and because of the deployment I mean we know we know that that's what we all I think know that that's what the religious Jewish religious people think but what I'm asking is that don't don't these very religious Jewish opinions have a lot of influence on Israeli politics they have I would say that that it has growing influence so for example in 19th in the early 70s when the religious religious Jewish settlers not all settlers in the West Bank by the way are religious but the religious ones they went to a point called Sebastia and they settled there and they wanted to stay there and they Israeli the Israeli government sent troops and they didn't even let them settle there they evacuated them so evidence didn't have that much that much influence but they had growing in luhan's and when and as as their influence grew obviously they exercise more and more exercising more and more in their favor and managed to get more segments by the way I just have to comment not all settlements in let's say in the West Bank our own land that was confiscated or taken a lot a lot of the settlements are built on land that was actually bought from its owners the problem the problem is that there is a law against selling lends to a Jew so those who sold couldn't are very cautious saying we sold it because they'll be executed but I think we're now diverting from illegal so let's go back ready okay there may be a second or the influence of religious of religious of religion on Israeli politics unfortunately to me I think it's unfortunate it has a growing influence on Israeli politics right now including including issues that concerning the settlements in the West Bank right so are you asking me a question like no no I'm confirming what you said right there is yes there is a growing influence of the religious discourse on Israeli politics when he's also lying wasn't it isn't it that goes up and down like it's right now we're on unfortunately is growing even more than before but it used to also be high earlier I mean a lot of people claim that the settlements you know in West Bank would not make any sense other than for religious reasons like Israel would have saved itself a lot of headache if like it would if they didn't have so many settlements in the West Bank it's not as bad for Israel as bad for everybody the only the only reason why the insistence on the settlements in the West Bank would would make sense if if I mean make sense quote-unquote is that is for people to think for religious for religious reasons they have to be there otherwise it will make any others I tend to agree I tend to agree to what you just said eh but then but then you will have people that would tell you that for Israeli security and I can see their their narrow military point Israel must sit on the hot hilltops of the West Bank and the best way to make sure that Israel sits there is to build also civilian settlements that would that's what they would say I personally I agree with you I think if I consider myself a King Zionist and at the same time I think the best thing for Israel is to pull out of most of the West Bank that's my personal view so I don't think they're beneficial and I don't think that what leads the religious part of the settlement settlers to settle them settle there is utilitarian I don't think they just do it because I think it's good for security or it's beneficial for the state of it I think they definitely do it and then they're all talking about it because they think they're fulfilling a divine plan and that's a stage in this divine plan they're not very they're not being very shy about it and that's the that's their main that's the main purpose for them the State of Israel is just a vessel so that to do it to the fulfillment of this plan so do you think that the religious people in Israel are kind of taking the secular people in Israel kind of hostage with this but their influence because under foreign policy like without you know like then it's not just what what they're doing is bad for I don't know who whatever it's bad for Israel itself okay so now the thing is that there are a lot of secular non-religious Jews by the way that just so you know the first person who formed the league against religious compulsion in Israel that was in the 50s the league against a religious compulsion Israel was a right-wing person he was the son of David or Putin ski-jumper schinsky was the iconic leader of the Israeli right-wing and his son was the one who fought for the total separation of religion and state so it's not it's not really a right wing left wing thing in Israel a the the way you relate to religion so back to what you've asked there are a lot of secular Jews that think that Israel should stay in the West Bank for security reasons for utilitarian reasons so there they I don't think they they feel they are take in hostage by the fighters by the religious a Zionist I mean but but that argument doesn't fly because I mean the settlements in the West Bank has makes a two-state solution and I want to go back to religion very fast but yeah just just to point that it makes this two-state solution almost impossible right and if you don't have a two-state solution what are you gonna have you're gonna have like whatever is our option if you like nobody wants a one-state solution because now all of a sudden the demographics is going to change too for the religious Jewish people wouldn't want equal like citizenship rights to everybody under one state solution so you either have apartheid or one state or two states the two-state solution has been made impossible by this impossible by the settlements I'm not sure it's impossible yet I'm not sure it's already impossible but yes obviously they they're they take pride in the fact that they are thwarted the two-state solution they're happy you know if you point out to them guys you're thwarting the two-state solution say yeah you know we got what we wanted we we've managed to – so what they want they don't want one state either they don't want a one-state solution – they want where they want to run a party I'm I'm not the best Polk's person for these people okay so it would be hard for me it would be hard for me I can only speculate okay if you read if you read their political platform there is a lot of variable acrobatics to avoid saying that you are you will be discriminating a certain group in comparison to another they go you know they they they do verbal somersaults to avoid people being able to point a finger at them and say oh that's discrimination or apartheid or whatever you want to call it practically speaking practically speaking they will they will reach a point where a it will in practice be I I don't think it's gonna be as bad as apartheid but death splitting hairs already the bottom line is they will reach a point where they will it will be a state that discriminate in terms of civil right against a two and a half million of its own population this is apartheid they will you can go splitting here because the fact that is an element of physical separation of Oakland but the bottom line is it will be discriminating against against the other population and so I I I'm very reluctant I'm very lucky to to use the term apart-er apartheid in accurately because people will just jump on it and use it as they use it as a slur and I will discriminate will be fair very discrimination there the situation will not be democratic and I can only speculate about how they want to resolve it I think that them being religious they're not very rational they think ok we don't know how we're going to resolve it but since we are now fulfilling a divine plan God will come and he will find some kind of a solution we haven't thought about since lips a way that might work what what do you think is the best solution religion as a non religious Zionist two-state solution to stop a two-state solution with a with a significant Jewish majority in one and a significant Arab Palestinian majority in the other but wouldn't that be like a this isn't this what the wouldn't that be like a national state way for each Buddhist define define an F no state and then I be able to answer well when you like deciding who's a citizen of what country based on their race oh no because you will still have you will still it's not that I want to – it's also I think that you should force Israeli Arabs out of Israel they will be they will remain citizens in Israel and hopefully they will you know they will enjoy they would feel that they are tricky being treated as equal so I right now in Israel and Israeli Arab citizen he can vote to the Parliament he can you know you have a property whatever you know people notice there's a lot of Arab Israelis like a lot of people when they think Arab within their windows in those areas they're thinking about the Gaza Strip and the West Bank but know within Israel yes yes Israel is 2030 since our Arab yeah 21st it is full citizens we're not talking at people that vote and within their own with their Arab politicians in yeah they therapy I think there are eleven eleven Arab the members of the Knesset which is the Israeli Parliament yeah I think I mean a lot of people we could have Turner's I just have to say this when we criticize Israel a lot of people will say well it's it's much better than its neighbors and of course of course it's much better than its neighbors I mean I can't imagine that any of the neighbors having Jews in their Parliament's right like yeah I mean to the degree I'm saying to the degree that is the degree of secularism and tolerance within Israel and but but that doesn't mean that we can't share on Spitzer's politics just because it's better than the lowest standard that is out there right oh no Israelis are doing it all the time I mean if you want to hear criticism of Israeli politics go to Israel and get a taxi and the taxi driver and I guarantee you by the end of the taxi ride you will hear all the criticism a want about Israeli politics yeah I mean that's and that's and that's a great thing that's a great thing about Israel is that there's a lot of people in there that shit on their own power the government put the government's all the time all the time but when when somebody we do it when we say that Israel fucked up over there people like oh why you're anti-israel all right no what are you talking about every country has every country has its own fair share of shitty policies it would be a it would be a miracle if L didn't have shitty policies of course we could point at them and say that is wrong good yeah yeah so yeah so I personally I have no problems with with people criticizing and Israeli politics and as long as they you know as long as they get their facts right I have no issues with their the main reason the main reason why I I get in those discussions because I see people are a lot of time misinformed and so so that's that's why I get into those those issues so they so for example with the issue that you brought with the thing that you brought up with the religious justification now it's not only a religious justification there a lot of Zionists that are not religious and their justification for staying in the country is purely historical sorry danger I'm gonna make sure we don't make sure I don't ignore the live chat by the way if you guys wanted me to read anything make sure you tag atheist Republic both from Facebook and YouTube be just saying dude Zion leaders often of other countries push for Israel Hashem is saying the land was populated by 95% to 98% Palestinians before the creation of Israel so I don't understand what right did they have to create their state let's let's stop worse hold on for this Hashem a Hashem in 1947 between the Jordan River and the NFC they were for every for every Jew there were two Palestinian Arabs so it was known 90 something percent it was more in the terms of a third versus two-thirds just so we get the facts right cm I keep saying here's the I mean I don't I really don't understand the historical argument the people that are born in why did they worship in a place and they like I'm born here like oh but your parents came here illegally well fuck I hope I was born here like why why I don't I never understand when people was like oh our ancestors thousands of years ago who gives this shit with our ancestors it's okay I'll tell you I'll tell you first of all tell you who gives a shit the people the people in the other countries were Jews lived they gave a shit and that because otherwise they would tell the Jews this is your country too but they did but they didn't tell that the Jew they said you go to Palestine so the Jews went to Palestine but then they came to them said Jew get out of Palestine so it it it turns Jews founded I mean in a position where they just had to find a place where we they're not the foreigners yeah but hindsight but if you look at didn't they pick the worst place on the planet given that they're surrounded by everybody hates them and has nothing to offer it's the worst land in the middle of the worst place surrounded by anti-semites everywhere like is like is I think looking back shouldn't they have picked another place on the planet okay so we're another another bit of Jewish history of Zionist history again we with we're a we're diverting from religion but it's an interesting question I'll answer it in the night in 1919 a Jews actually sought sought the approval of the Arabic Arab national movement at that time they still didn't think of the service of Syrians Iraqis and Palestinians because they still had the vision of one Arabic Arab Kingdom and the leader was a Python faisal the one who fought with Lawrence of Arabia against the Turks so the hind Weitzman the leader of designs movement met met with Faisal in 1919 and they got his approval for a Jewish homeland in what was then called Palestine so it's not like the Jews they said we're going to come there and everyone's going to hate us and no one's going to accept us a but we're still going to go there no they thought that they're going to come there and they most of them said we're going to come there with all of our science and the technology and we're going to make the land fertile and we're going to bring medicine and everyone's going to be happy that we came that now they're Jabotinsky the leader of the right-wing Zionists said don't elude yourself they would never accept you they'd always want you out we're in open inability an iron wall he wrote an article called the iron wall you'll have to build there an iron wall and and until they would get tired of trying and break this wall don't don't think they're going to be right we do you think they would the Jews they're leaving it running away from Europe and Russia and everywhere else we didn't have when didn't they look into Madagascar they were all kinda they looked at they were looking for the Kimberley's in Australia I Madagascar you know so I finished in Kenya what which was then you got part of Uganda they were looking for an area in West okay yeah wouldn't they have like if we go back within the within their lives you so much better right now if they picked one of those other places don't you think Hey I don't know I'm very registration I I think no I'm no no but the answer more seriously I don't think so because I can tell you I can tell you as a secular Jew that the reason that I felt attached to the country where I grew up was not only because not only because the United Nations said so but because I was walking hiking in the country and I reached to our key illogical sites with with that where they found writings in my mother tongue or bits of history of my country so obviously I love my people so obviously I felt more my sense of identity was welcomed I never get in that country so in that sense I think they were far better off in in Israel than in any any other country furthermore you can they were running the same argue okay here I'll give you you want identity in history then you be like well the Jewish people were exiled so part of your identity is to be everywhere I see you could make stuff up as much as you go like oh no the the fact that your eggs are the fact that the temples like I don't know these stories people when they say like oh I just identified with this well you could identify with a million other things if you just just use your imagination and the answer the answer is that the Jews the Jews tried but they but it didn't work for them so someone like Theodor Herzl he was an atheist and he wasn't a Zionist for most for most of his life he died young yeah but he saw that he doesn't work he said well I can I can say I'm Germanic all I want he was a conjurer minister was a period things like we found Germany's I can say I am a German East all I want but that's not gonna you know the other Germans they won't accept me as one and Alfred rifles could have said he was a French back here at all he wanted no one here it looks like in in the world we're United States is such a young country Canada is such a young country Australia is such a young country and look you're doing fine they're doing great so this whole idea of like oh it's our history we need identity it's just bullshit to me because we don't know isn't yeah yeah the reason they're doing great is because they treated the people that were there when they came far worse than Israel treated the people that were there when Israel was established their only reason they were doing great if they treated the Indians like Israel treated the Arabs they wouldn't be doing so great holy shit you just did you just excuse genocide no I didn't excuse it I just explained why they're doing great if they would if if they would if they would leave the Indians to be as strong as they were I don't think they were doing so great or or the indigenous people elsewhere they just came there and they weren't bothered with with issues of more well they were in their own life view maybe they thought they were more immoral but the bottom line is they were doing right because the people that object that opposed their presence there we're nearly annihilated so now they can say now they can say we're democratic and we're doing great but of course when when you when you reduce your your opposition to to 1% of the population around you then you of course you're gonna do great I I'm not saying that that is a more a okay yeah you're explaining something you're not justify get yeah I'm not justifying it I'm just explaining how come the United States is doing so good yeah I think you think it's a double standard because Israel was Allah you're saying that Israel the Jews the way United States colonized you know the lands of the Indians and Ken and your the rest of you visit Canada and Noah and northern Mexico by the way you say it was way more brutal Israel the Jews when they they were a lot more gentle towards their people that were living there and you're saying there's a double standard when it comes to demonizing Israel I wouldn't care I wouldn't call it first of all I don't think it's double sound because I think they the demonizes of Israel today are very happy to demonize the US and Canada are just the same so I don't think they apply that and I wouldn't say also a double standard in the sense that when the US and Australia are and the others treated the indigenous people there the way they did at that time I don't think they realized they were doing something so so wrong so the argument against that by the way is that again this I'm not saying that that was the right thing to do but but there was advocate though a lot of people say that the Indians were killing each other way more than the people that the Europeans are they arrive doesn't make it right yes but they say like at the end of the day it benefited them actually no never mind the disease the way the main reason the Indians were killed was not true cons was by the disease that the Europeans brought and that wasn't really by design but anyways let's keep we're getting off topic yeah okay so maybe that what the point I'm trying to say is the opposition was reduced in whatever disease killing it doesn't right the point is the opposition was reduced to such a state that it was no big deal now to build up your own country and do great right hey so yeah well back to Israel and Palestine and hopefully back to religion at a certain point yeah in Israeli the Zionists when they came to the country when they started thinking about building having a country the first thing they were trying to do is to reach out to the national leadership of the Arabs at the time which was Faisal the Hashemite Faisal and rich get his approval and Faisal gave his approval his approval but then made a comment on the agreement provided that all the rights of the inhabitants of Palestine will be preserved so that was it's not like the Jews came and said oh let's go and just kick everyone out and we don't care what they think yes they did care what they thought and they try to sort their approval a now the real now you mentioned that it's a shitty place because it's surrounded by enemies but yes it is it's just that Israel was lucky that the enemies he chose were evidently quite incompetent so if imagine if Israel would have have existed in the place where the enemies were more better organized or competent it would have been maybe even worse so yeah but I'm gonna bet away Facebook live chat people if you want to make sure I read something please mention a sister public if I don't read the YouTube live chat questions I'm gonna miss them Co Mikey saying here's the question the designers movement despite its secular motivation radicalized some Orthodox Jews to create more religious connections venomoth emi keep saying is it fair to say that the religious Zionists are mixed or ambiguous about their positions on how to handle the state and let me oh my god there's okay I'm gonna okay yeah so let me tell you something ya know I'm gonna just flicks with question okay go on just answer I have some questions I don't know if I'm gonna get to them by going because I want to get into power the influence of religion in do many other things in Israel when it comes to gay rights woman rights the influence of religion in in in you know in business and you know as he getting worse is he getting better so there's a lot of things but I'm gonna keep trying okay so pick pick a question from from the live feed that you think I won't like if you're making questions and then let's move on to other thing so what was it just repeat the question sorry sorry here Mikey is so the designers movement despite its secular motivation radicalized some Orthodox use to create more religious connections and it's all saying is it fair to say that the religious Zionists are mixed or ambiguous about their position on how to handle the state okay so did it radicalize the Orthodox Jews and so I'll have to do some terminology here a the the Orthodox Jews are divided into two major groups you have the Zionist Orthodox Jews these are the ones that think it was a good thing to build to set up the State of Israel they support full-heartedly Zionism because for them Zionism conforms with the with a divine plan and with the idea of establishing again the State of the State of Israel in the religious context of a then you have the ultra-orthodox Jews these are Jews that around the 18th century when juice when Europe opened up to Jews and Joseph Lee's could assimilate with the green to the European society they thought it wasn't a good thing and they tried as much as they could to prevent their communities from assimilating into the European culture which is which made them was stricter religiously speaking and not very happy with any innovations those ultra-orthodox Jews some of them think some of them are are clearly anti Zionist they think journalism is an interference with a divine plan and once God wants us to ever our country it will build it but now they are against dynamism they're saying that America we shouldn't have Israel as the Messiah is back don't push God's plan don't don't go pushing God when God will decide he will send you the Messiah it'll ban or not like it seems like a fringe movement to me I mean I'm not sure to be honest because some of them collaborate and are involved in in the Israeli politics probably for utilitarian reasons so because because they can get budgets because they get it get religion more into the society so I don't know some of them refuse to collaborate with Israel at all so they won't even collect their Social Security money because they don't recognize the government at all they they won't deal with anything that has to do with the state they just live in the country but they will they will just didn't behave as if the country doesn't exist they would try and use foreign currency and not Israeli currency whatever they can do to to distance himself from the country the other part accepts the country and even have some political influence but religiously speaking I'm not sure they think the creation of Israel was a good idea and then you have and I'm going back to the Oh matches a question then you have those Jews that said that the formation of the State of Israel was the beginning of the redemption in the religious the religious sense of it and the 67 of the six-day war when we got even to get today today even more historical parts of the of the historical Israel it's even another stage of this Redemption a miracle from God didn't they like I guess I guess they they always think God is involved so exactly when they thought this was also a miracle from God I mean I mean when you defeat they did how many Arab countries were at fighting a six main then they the main armies would do there were four main armies and then other few countries computed the beat but so you have a little new – you have a tiny little new country and six countries attack it with their armies and Israel wins to them it sounds to them is like how could God not be on our side if we're winning yes that's the way that's the way they see but but going back to someone mentioned here about the language of nationalism going back to that the main I think the main reason Israel one of the Jews won it was like half a million Jews against forty million Arabs pretty much in terms of the size of the of the nations it was because they already they were very good at developing their collective identity and they worked for me when during the war the Palestinian Arabs suddenly 1918 or when 1920 when they when the Ottoman Empire was carved between the sad – Palestine Jordan Iraq etc suddenly someone sounded they had to think of themselves as members of the state of when the same nation so and it took them by the time they figured out that they have to act as a collective and did it effectively the Jews were already fully organized so it was far so when for the war of 48 came the Jews were far better mobilized and organized then the Arabs and before and and enough also to fend the invading regular Arab armies from the other countries so I don't think God was involved at all I think it was due to very good organization of the Jews but okay I can encompass Lee I cannot debate a religious person about it yeah but people say well they obviously they won because they had us backing but didn't know at that time expression of historical ignorance yeah a lot of people don't know that is Unitas actually at some point put sanctions and yes now the United in 1948 the United States not only put an embargo of weapon sales it also put on a bar go of sales of steel plates that the Jews needed just to armor the cars not even they didn't even need the weapons but the US Assange placed an embargo on weapons and steel sales to the Middle East and then they the people who did help the Jews at the time was the check of a Czechoslovakia which was they were the main weapon supplies of Israel okay going to back to religion in Israel so what what why is it that it said that by by almost every main politician in Israel is that Israel correct me if I'm wrong that Israel is a Jewish state okay so isn't that sin so anti what does it mean when they say it's okay it means two different people with mean different things so as a secular atheist Jew what it means to me is this is a state where most of the inhabitants choose to define themselves as Jewish it's most of the inhabitant of the state choose to define themselves of Jewish the state is Jewish even tomorrow if in Switzerland most of the people in Switzerland would define themselves of Jewish it would turn Switzerland into a Jewish state bye-bye just because by virtue of the reality but this is for me the meaning of a Jewish state of course if you speak to a religious person said well if it's a Jewish trait then of course we cannot have public transportation on the Sabbath how can a Jewish state allow that how can we allow this this this and the other but if you but here is there's so many problem I have so many problems with calling any set first of all if if it's the first problem is that the the word you is so confusing I mean you know when we when we criticize Islam we already get so much shit from people saying we're bigots even though or racist even though only twenty percent of Muslims or Arab there's so many different races of you know Muslims Islam is not a s Missa tee or it's just an idea but then even with Islam with that level of confusion exist when it comes to shelling on Judaism that level of confusion just increases because because the word jew' applies to three different things at the same time a applies to we're talking about religion and then we're talking we're talking about culture and we're talking about ethnicity at the same time it could mean different things with different people so when you want to when you want to shit on the Jewish religion you get people or always confused like oh you're an anti-semite but the thing is that when you and this problem here when you when you say it's a Jewish state you can then is just now is a great way to sneak in for sneaking religion because like it's kind of like bombing Islamic state or a Christian state but even even if it doesn't mean religion I still have a problem with it because if you're talking about assisity what would you be okay for example with you know they say saying that United States is a white country all right like I like with you would that be something that you supports or like this is a white country I a white has to do with a very specific biological property but when Poland says we're a Polish country I'm very confident with it I'm very comfortable with it when the Czech Republic says we're a Czech country I'm comfortable with it i I don't I don't see it as a I don't see the nation-state is that the problem by itself I see and make sure that the problem isn't that the definition of a national state I I don't know I don't know the subtleties between a nation-state and an ethnos state but I won't have a problem if members of a of an ethnic group says look the only problem the only way for us to resolve our problem as members of this group is to have a stake of our own I why does the state has to be defined by the by the majority of the best ethnic group by disease because because sometimes the problem of this collective are defined because of that collective identity and the state is the tool to resolve it so is it a problem big more than a solution when you deaf weenie do these things like that oh I don't think so I think I think in case of the Jews it worked very well I think for the Jews this solution worked very well and the fact that there there is a stake that is defined as the homeland of the Jews was something that was something that I started speaking say helped to solve problems when if have something have something I mean the origin story of a nation doesn't have to define that forever does it like any country could progress like we understood be like ok the the purple people were being discriminated and they went here and they started their own thing and now they but now that the now why do we why does it have to be defined by the origin server I can be like okay well this is how you can become citizen I have nothing to do with your ethnicity I mean just because something started in the way why does it always have to why does it even if you could argue for the benefits of why it made sense at that time if you could argue that why does it mean that it always has to be that way do you mean I don't think it necessarily always I don't think that it will have to remain that way for them know when you go there Jewish state you're you're basically picking sides you're kind of communicating to the P to the Arab citizens of your country that you technically don't belong here no no not necessarily because if you read Israel's a charter of Independence then you see that it's a very balanced document unfortunately recently with the nation law would that happen this year the right wing try is trying to chisel through this this very balanced situation again we are diverging from religion but but we're not in front wait wait wait I don't have the law in front of me to be very a to tell you exactly what the problem is but for example the nation load demoted our Arab Arabic was the official or language of Israel until a year ago right a the nation load demoted the status of Arab language from an official language to a language with the special status so so what it means is that in practice everything will remain the same you'll have the you will have a an Arabic education system you will have a government issuing its you know publications also in Arabic so the Arabs can really its etcetera but they have to put this this article in the law as if to say it's kind of sticking their finger in the eye yeah it's kind of like you guys are secondary but this will argument in practice things will change this is how you slowly change things in practice first you change things symbolically and then after a while when things have to take change symbolically for and stood like way then you start changing thing in practice by pointing out the things that you change symbolically like well symbolically we're supposed to be like this or like but just because things don't change in practice doesn't mean that that's not the ultimate goal right yes so so going back to your question where the things I generally agree what you said Oh God and that's why a lot of people have problems with the symbolism so to speak of this particular nation low but if you go back to the charter of Independence it's a very balanced document and so and they for me if you ask me how can it be a Jewish state and you can still tell the Arab this is your land – I would say it is a Jewish state in the sense that most of which in its inhabitants define themselves as Jews and that it will accept any Jew that wants to come there because that's the problem that Jews had before in history and that's one of the things that it resolves that when Jews were in trouble they were knocking on doors of different countries and no one wanted to accept them so that's one thing that these Jewish state resolves but in every any other respect as far as I'm concerned and not only me it's like even the leader as I said even the middle of the right wing's I'm Jeb Jabotinsky was very clear that he wanted the Arabs to be treated fully as full equals in the state that will that will be there so it's not a lefty it's not a lefty liberal thing whatever you want to call it and so I can see I can see this tension being resolved and the country still being a Jewish state for me the Jewish state is Maine has mainly to do with the identity of most of its inhabitants but what will be the cost if you didn't call it a Jewish why not just not called as a choice okay why not focus on where a secular state for for everyone for every welfare for everybody that comes that becomes a citizen in a legal way okay because the first of all that was that was they how the UN chose to define it but it it is important and it is the goal of the country to remain a country where Jews Jews will never be refused to come to and where Jews will be the majority so now you can say okay so how are you going to maintain this majority you know telling people to come back all the Jews in the world to come back to this one that's that's one that's one with one thing and another thing and this is what the left-wing Zionists want is to withdraw rather than an axe all the areas that jeopardize the Jewish majority right so they'll come and say okay the West Bank we can enact it and give citizenship to everyone but then we will lose the Jewish majority let's just withdraw from there because we're jeopardizing the Jewishness of the country or for its democracy we won't be able to have it both dictator so that's yeah that's how that's that's how you make a plain is all forever at some point what are you gonna do with West Bank like forever you can't like at some point something is gonna change no you have it we can withdraw from the West Bank that's one thing we can do okay and then and then and then the problem will be a mere problem between to to neighbors not getting along with the border between them rather than two ethnicities in the same country a we don't you want to ask me stuff more about religion but yeah okay yes the very interesting topic is just we are we keep we keep yeah well I mean isn't this a bad religion the nature of Israel as a country because to me when you when you call the Jewish faith your eider are talking about an ethnos state or a theocracy or you're going in that direction is in things getting don't don't you think that as you mentioned the right wing is don't you think that they're they're using race as an excuse to squeeze into smuggling religion they're like every time every time you mentioned like hey you guys seem to be getting religion more and more involved in politics they're like no no no no no we're talking about culture we're talking about the Jewish I did yeah so but then is always yeah okay there is always the stealth campaign in the education system in the public sphere and you always have to see whether is where is the fine line between tradition and religion and one of the links that I've put one of the links that I've put in the description is to the secular forum the secular forum is a forum of secular parents that sucks that notice that their kids are getting more and more religious content in their curriculum and they decide and they start decided to start monitoring it and take action about it so they're always the stealth campaign and we're sorry by the way by the way I'm not sure I think the religious people they don't they don't understand what my problem is they see it is one so so they look at me and say look this guy this guy is a bit confused II when we it doesn't understand that their religion is is just a part of his identity to as a Jew but my answer is Greek Greece is a Greek state and you have Greek people living there but I bet you my bottom dollar that most Greeks don't worship Zeus and and that doesn't and they worship a Jew who lived thousands of kilometres away from there they don't worship Zeus but they doesn't make them less Greek and so at this I'm familiar with that type of before there's a whole bunch of new people in Iran that are saying that all your onions are Zoroastrian by in the 8th in their identity if they don't all the Muslims and the atheists and they these new Christian you right now they don't understand that the Austrian ISM it's in their DNA I like yeah sure whatever but but I but it's pretty similar I guess like you know religious Jewish drink like this is part of your religion is something that you can't just just you say like well no I'm not religious I'm Jewish but not religious no you don't understand this is part of your identity right is that same yes yeah and they and they concern me that's why religiously speaking even though I'm an a theorem Ozlem and you become become may I say and I taste for them you're not a Muslim anymore right you're an apostate but as far as the religious people are concerned I'm still a Jew right I can be as atheist as I want but as far as really the Jewish religion is concerned I am still a Jew what that is Islam and Christianity and I'd like that because there are more modern religions historically speaking yeah but yeah but Judaism is the restroom is them because they're more ancient religion they see it as part of your ethnic religion so that's why they think like these no I compare that to this hey what since you brought Iran already the name of Iran is Iran but I think as a country it would be fair even though not everyone is Persian in Iran I think it would be fair to say that this is a person country in the sense that most of your onions are Persian the the language is mostly Persian so even though you have a courage and a series and the Balaji's Iran is a rule you can say it is a Persian country so you don't get me sir I have learned a lot of the Iran hate me because they are ethno nationalists and they don't like me at the thought they liked me because I was anti Islam and that they don't like me anymore because apparently I I have betrayed my own race but anyways let's let's go can you give us some examples on how religion in Israel is becoming more influential and is sneaking in into people's lives so I'll start with describe more of the station squirrel before we got there so people will say that their progression so this we spoke about the Rabbinical institution having monopoly on marriages then you have the Sabbath where a in most Israeli Jewish Israeli towns and cities you don't have public transportation on the Sabbath officially speaking you're not supposed to open your business on Sabbath even though the municipalities now they don't care many of them they won't even bother giving you the find it just they are we're not going to enforce that and then another thing is that if in any government facility or in the Army the food has to be kosher so if you are in the army and I can see the point in that of course it because you you enlist in the army religious Jews you want them to be able to eat so they make sure the food is kosher hence it's also challah because culture is stricken there if it's something it's coffee it's also halal so if you're a moderate for eat for it to be hello you have to say best friend law before cutting the head off and you have to weigh towards the can at the cabin put the head what I understand okay you are better Muslim you were a better Muslim than I would ever be in if you were a Muslim but from what I understand a Muslim have no problem eating in a religious Jews house they what if it's kosher the Muslim woman but they should know the Jewish people touch that that means is legit ah that's me that's you you Shiite guys yeah you think it's not just you know I mean yeah yeah but but I I can tell you for a fact when I was in the Army I was sitting in the same table with Muslim soldiers they were eating the same food as myself with no problem because I think yeah I think you have it if there's no option I don't know anyways they found I am in a funny way around it they're not gonna go hungry they gotta find loopholes in their own system and yeah exactly I found they found ways around it but so so you have the culture thing that a government institutions if they have kitchens or the army they have they have to be kosher and we spoke about the Sabbath public transportation and businesses and we spoke about a personal status now since that status quo you go to a point where certain streets in Israel are closed even for private transportation on the Sabbath because most of the people who live there are really religious Jews so them use their local municipalities passed by laws that would block those particular streets on the Saba for example then you have an example you have the education system that I examples they have just given so I'll just give you an example of how they sneak in religious content because I I've been out of Israel now for 10 years so I follow it through the way but I've just I met did some homework he lived there you were born there and howling I was born there and I lived there until 2007 okay and then I to Australia okay so for example a manger crunchy Israel is trying to get all the Jews back to Israel and you're leaving Israel I gave about three years of my life no actually four years the cumulative to my country so I have my conscience clear three four years of my life belonged to the State of Israel so okay do you mind me asking no no it's madness it's mandatory if you're if you're Jewish it's mandatory and of course the ultra-orthodox find I on the way to it see that's privileged right there absolutely of course the pieces often secures to no end the main reason section fear just to be clear to our audience if you everybody in in actually is is I think it's the most aggressive than any other country because even in Iran only one of the other countries that has mandatory military serving the girls don't have to serve in Israel both boys and girls have mandatory serving unless you're an Orthodox Jew no unless okay now now we're getting now read that that's an important detail to mention the official wording of the law says that you have to go to the army if the minister of defense calls you to do it practically what the Minister of Defense is doing he is calling and he's calling Jews and then other than Jews it calls it would the Drew's men druzy say I'm thinking or Drew's out it's a it's a second tip diverged from the Shia a secretive about the view very secretive about the religion so the Druze men are also called to the service Muslims if they want Muslims if they want they can join but they don't they're not obliged to this is this is none of this sound secular to me like picking like first these this religion than that religion if you're this religion you don't have to but you can like yeah it's very it's very the line is very blurry unit in this say in this sense a so so what the arm but then the ultra-orthodox came to when the country was formed they can said first of all we don't want our girls to go unless they unless they want to but we don't want our girls to go to the army because you know they'll be with boys and and to be honest as someone who served in the Israeli army yeah I can see their point things happen there when you put a lot of 18 19 and 20 year olds together in a close place but they of both sexes but they so I can tell you what what you were worried about I just don't think it's a good excuse to great why would my sister have to serve two years then and her religious neighbor wouldn't yeah it's not very fair and but anyway let's be religious for a couple of years and tell the age passes that you have to serve like no just go and say yeah I'm religious and they avoid the construction and and they have deaf they asked us several questions they have to I don't remember they they have to show that they do this you know three thing I don't remember exactly what but if there I know I know a girl who did it and she was not really religious I can tell you for a fact I just found good and okay so yeah I don't know I I'll answered it in a beat just let me finish the congestion because it's not over yet okay now altar also to excuse the ones I mentioned before they came they came to the government when the country was established and said look all we want is to preserve a few hundred of very bright very bright young people in our community that they will stay and continue study in a yeshiva in the religious color institutions instead of going to the army so just allow us to absolve a few hundreds from from the service for that and they and the state agree to that in practice what happened that yes sir some of them that went to those yeshivas were absorbed again ueshiba is the scholar Institute of the ultra-orthodox others just one found ways to not to go to the army they went to psychiatrist or whether may got their merit faked their medicals and a few of them did enlist in 1977 that was the first year that the right-wing could have form the government and the ultra-orthodox party came to them said you want to sing the coalition we want you to extend the exemptions that you give we don't want a few hundred we want more and the condition was that as long as what this guy is doing is only studying the scriptures in this institution then they don't have to go to the army if he does if he wants to work as a butcher no you'll have to go to the army but he wants to stay as a religious student he can ease exempt and with the years the number extended to several tens of thousands now the result of that they this had significant socio-economical results because now these people cannot leave the religious institution because if they start officially working they're no longer exempt from the service right because the condition was that they will have to be in this institution wait so there's no like period that after that he could stop pretending you oh yeah you can because say well once you get married they don't call it because you married so I guess if you get married you bet then you're exempt again so marry other people that are reading religious texts pretending to be religious until they get married so that they don't have to serve that's really fun I don't think they pretend to be religious I think they're really religious but the arrangement is such that if they there go to the job market oh very hard on me because they're doing useless shit instead of actually contributing doing it and not only that they're doing useless because the thing is that because they also flex with everything you know in the in the most subtle ways as soon as like you know like in ways that you can't even like you don't even expect as soon as you get religion mixed with something things are falling apart but girl I'm sorry but that's not we're not finished you you think we're finished we're just beginning then people thought that what the author Orthodox did was they say okay these guys because they had political power and because in Israeli politics you have the red left wing and the right wing and then you have the these small parties that can kilt the scale for the coalition and these small parties were normally there were the ultra-orthodox parties so they came and to each go to each coalition they went into said ok you want to see the coalition we needs bad we need budgets to support those guys who studies in those institutions so they can have a living they can you know they can provide themselves so they also got money just to pay them to remain and study their government any like tax-free yeah government money like section there's money is funding their lives there so they don't live like kings don't get me wrong it's not like there is a lot a source of great hostility in the non-orthodox public in Israel what the ultra-orthodox community is getting worse or better like it's getting worse if it changes between coalition's one collision in another but the general yeah is that I think it's getting worse now on top of on top of that and now I'm going to talk a bit about the education system in Israel in a religious context in the Jewish education system because you have the arabic-speaking one which is a different story but but the Hebrew speaking one you have three major streams three major avenues you have the state non-religious education system which is supposed to be just state curriculum with no added religious curriculum then you have the state religious curriculum which is supposed to be state curriculum and additional religious content in it and then you have the independent ultra Orthodox a part which is independent in its content completely but still gets funded by a by the government so that's another part of the status quo they came and said we want our independence our education system to be independent of your curriculum the result of which then they got it and they got it they got it now they're now the result of it is that the rabbi's did not their leaders practically make their people totally dependent on the community because they when you go as a kid when you go to their education system you don't get the skills that you need to function in the outside world and that's by design sorry that's by design so you always need them yes and then you turn 18 and you want to go to the army no you don't want to go to the army so you have to enter there the higher religious higher scholar is the achiever if they hire scholar institution yeah if you leave if you're gonna leave that you have no skills in the outside world and they'll take you to the army alright so you're gonna stay there as well and this way the whole community is dependent on itself a separate chain in the country yeah now on top on top of that the one thing that the ultra-orthodox parties were good at was to make sure that the welfare system is such that it rewards you for having more kids so so if you have if you have you get more money for the for every extra kid you don't get money for your first kid you get money from Social Security for your second you get even more for your third you get even more for your fourth so they created the system which is very poor their society is very poor always always poor always ignorant and dependent on them right so that's the most that's one of the most successful cults in the world and and when people think about our I always think about these people with the funny hats and the curly hair and the people that spit on women or little girls that don't have the most extreme I don't think I don't think all of them look first of all the auto ultra Orthodox Jews of today were not what they were 800 years ago my great-grandfather was an ultra-orthodox Jews and he went to Israel and he bought a farm and he was a farmer and he worked with his hand all his life right and and and when his kids at the age of 13 it goes in Judaism when you turn 13 then you become a respondent responsible for your own sins when it when his kids at the age of age of 13 chose to be secular I said okay you're 13 now you're not my responsibility do whatever you want so that was then nowadays because of the social economical processes that I described they're far less open they don't want their people to have much exposure to the secular world so yes and so but the people did those people that are excellent extreme right people that have their own areas and they don't want any technology and they want the technology but they don't want to be exposed to the idea nobody that they're happy to drive the car don't want your son to go and study in the Uni right oh no secular books no science background of people creationist world six years you know 6,000 year old kind of people but I'm just saying that those are not the only religious people that know that are making Israel more religious no they have you have design is religious people these are the people that are that you'd usually probably identify them with settlers that you see on the TV but they're not on not all of them are settlers and not all of the settlers are religious but a these are the ones that that are not new they would rest more modernly they have less problem with modernity and science but they're so very religious and they wanna make every week they consider themselves just as religious as the ultra-orthodox the ultra-orthodox look at them and say oh you guys are fake but they they would consider themselves religious just the same but the most dangerous or more dangerous right because those are the people with the influence and the connections and the people that have a very religious agenda that are trying to drive the politics and the rest of the country into action some of them look some of these guys are actually left wings but those of them who are in the right wing icons I personally consider the right wing beats of them dangerous because they have a lot of influence in their politics and I personally I think they're dragging the country to fulfill their messianic dreams on the expense of people that don't share them now at least one of them veni Castleberry is one of their leaders was very clear about it he didn't even bother to hide it that he considered democracy as a taller absolutely didn't it doesn't care you know their their ambition is not for as well to be a democracy they want Israel to be a religious state one and one day the Messiah will come actually there may have a question that I think I'm missing the live chat it was a really good question about the relationship between these people and their religious rights a Christian religious ah yeah very good question yeah so I saw the two III now what from my bed the okay so here comes the you I as an Israeli everyone who wants to support Israel and and make it safer in the dangerous neighborhood where it is I'm not going to be very picky you know if someone comes to me and says look I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure that you get more support at the international arena I say look I don't care who you worship I don't care what you believe if you want to support my country and its struggles I'm happy with that I do acknowledge that the Christian Right in mostly probably in the United States I actually believe that the new Brazilian president is also an evangelist I'm not sure but I think he's also as an evangelist background I think they they support they support Israel because they think they know the divine plan and they think one day there will be Armageddon and once Armageddon happens then Jesus is going to come and then everyone's going to be Christian anyway and there so so you have the religious so we have the religious right-wing in Israel the Jews they don't think anything special about Jesus and you have there you have the evangelists in the US that looks at the religious Jews and says oh those are the guys who rejected Jesus and each of them thinks that the other one is helping them fulfill their divine plan they think they use yeah exactly each of them things aren't gonna I'm gonna use them to fulfill my people the plan that God has for me but they're helping each other they're helping each other now I have to tell you they as an Israeli of course I'm not happy with I presently as their left-wing Israeli I'm not happy with Israel presence in the West Bank as it is I can see why Israelis are afraid of withdrawing for security reasons but I'm not happy as it is but if an evangelist comes to me and say I'm going to support your country and he's the support that he offers I think is good for my country I'm not going to be fussy about it I'm going to be very happy that my country has allied countries have always have allies that they're not always very happy with but could be more costly than helpful yeah because someone else could get you more could you you can't gain one ally and invites ten enemies because of having that Ally no yes but having having grown in the Middle East yourself I think you I think you we can both agree that the Israel's enemies in the Middle East will remain no matter no matter what even I don't know because when did the only way that Israel will stop having enemies is when you identify a greater threat to the Arabs than Israel yes and yes who is a greater strength now which is happening happening now which is Iran yes right yes you'll understand yeah there's people who don't know the Middle Eastern history but if we go back about 80 years ago you had two major rival dynasty the Hashemites and the Saudi the Hashemites were more tolerant towards designees than the Saudis and the Saudis were the most extreme ones against now suddenly there is a honeymoon in the in the horizon and they thought is there were hobbies a suddenly are not so don't have that much of a problem with Israeli presence I mean if they're begging them to do that thing about the earlie there suddenly you see on Kuwaiti TV on Saudi TV you see scholars that say good things about Israel and you know and that you know you know the reality of the region they wouldn't have been able to say that if the government approved of it no of course yeah it did and actually the threat of the Shia Islam and Iran as a whole is so so great to Sunni Arab countries that day they will they will devil United with the devil if they had to yeah exactly exactly so now I can so that's and so thank God I mean if we go back to theology thank God for this chasm in Islam that they felt there's so many people there so many so many dead people actually actually I'll tell you a little secret I was invited to a closed group when when they a civil war in Syria began and it was not very clear that the cheeks are the strong one someone invited me to a secret Facebook group that is called Israeli Shia alliance so so there were Shiites out there about seven years ago six years ago they try to form some kind of some kind of a Shia Israeli common interest and that's that's not that much of a novelty because in the in Lebanon during the civil war in the Senate is the Shiites of south Lebanon were quite quite happy with Israel coming in it's only later when Iran got in with Hezbollah that it turned but the Shiites in the 82 and the Israeli forces entered Lebanon they were Shiite women standing in the streets throwing rice and perfume on them so it's our way right now I mean Iran used to be a safe haven of like many years ago for Jews but now it's time to run I mean and the explanation is right now in Iran are actually saying that Iran is the the only force against Israel but and they say like all this Islamophobia claims by the West is fake because the West has no problem with Islam the West only has a problem with Shia Islam because all the so name Islamic countries are the pup now the puppets of the West and the problem that the West has with Shia Islam is technical is actually the problems with Iran so they think and the reason why everybody has a problem with Iran is because they are the only true force against the great devil which is that which is Israel so also is what is the great devil now okay no they know they think they think has been promoted because Israel used to be the small thing no it has been promoted it has been a commotion more than what you think because it used to be that Zionism was an evil because of what's happening in Israel but now apparently there's two versions of Zionism the did the babies are in is movement and the major Zionist movement the baby Zionist movement is just about making Israel a country for Jews but the actual major Zionist movement is to take over the whole fucking planet so all the boring oh yeah I know I know but no no it is all but it what is new is to me is that people are making to me at least I know this is all that forever but to what's new is that it's coming from non Islamic sources that yes in Iran like non-islamic ethno nationalist or Assyrian sources which claim that Shia Islam is actually a fake Islam is actually a Zoroastrian ism self most of Zoroastrianism it's just were a way for deserts where Iran not to become fully Islamic it was a resistance to the true Islam which is Sunni Islam yeah Ali wasn't even the Russian eonni well this aria no no but they're saying that as the sort of story of Ali was copied from Persian mythology have some but they're just saying like Iran was invaded by Arabs but the only way that it could survive and keep its own distinct identity was to have its own version of Shia Islam which if you look into deep looking to Shias Lomb you see a lot of elements of Zoroastrianism and that shows that Iran was just basically trying to not become fully Islam eyes because it's in this DNA or something some bullshit like that anyways I don't so we can't even trust non-muslim Iranian smelled it that's a shame hey don't really just just look at individuals and see what they say I don't trust people based on their I don't decide whether I could judge somebody based on their country no no I know you don't have to be religious to say – to believe in nonsense yes yes yeah but so so that's okay now I have to touch a so we spoke about the status quo we spoke about the religious ultra-orthodox a now the main now the main battleground that I've identified is also in the municipal election so a good good news in Israel was in the city of Tiberias city of Tiberias on the Galilee see well used to be a touristic city because it's on the lake and ultra-orthodox became more numerous there and got hold of the of politics and then started shutting down the city on the Sabbath businesses etc but in the recent municipal elections the secular people united they elected to say eh I don't know if he's fully secular but it's definitely not ultra-orthodox a mayor and he's now swinging the pendulum to the other side and opens the city on the Sabbath in a very clear and blatant way to show that the city is now returning to what it used to be so that's an example of this trench warfare that goes on between secular and religious people in the public sphere I also encourage the viewer as I put some links for anti a anti religious satire that happens in Israel there's always people say can you criticize Judaism without being anti-semitic well yes you have heaps of of secular Jews that criticize the religion and then obviously they are not anti-semitic oh I get I get accused of being anti-semitic all that I you know now more than ever because I think a lot of a lot of the like social justice where your PC crowd have lost the Battle of I think most now have lost the Battle of making everybody that criticizes Islam as a bigot I think that more and more people have realized that that's bullshit that I mean still there's many people that still believe that but I think the new frontier is now if you shed on Judaism you must be anti-semitic and I think I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna start shitting on Judaism more than ever before because if you want them if you were if you if you want to be sensitive about that but I mean you're right I mean but I point out when I should have Judaism is that most Jewish people are more that's tell me if this is right on to me based on what I've seen based on this area is seen ethnically Jewish people are the least religious group of people that in the Middle East I mean yes not in the world music because if you look at Japan that wouldn't be very very less religious but yes Middle East definitely yeah I mean I mean most Jewish people think this is bullshit and how I don't think I regret it I think today not most people think it's bullshit but for 40 percent of Israelis in a poll that I've seen define themselves as secular and in another poll twenty percent said they don't believe in God twenty percent what you so not know what I'm saying not most most is not accurate more on a percentage more than most demographics yes right yes so yes very and in Israel it's very safe if you unless you live in this ultra-orthodox neighborhood but generally it's very safe to come out as an atheist it's no big deal about it because people in atheist Republic you have a lot of stories people so how I came out as an atheist and in my community so even even in the West let's say I know for I think in the sudden of the United States some places in Israel I grew up in the village of only three hundred people we have a theist in that village we had an ultra Orthodox rabbi in the village we had n everything in between so and there was no big deal about it there is a lot of a lot of atheist culture and secular counterculture in Israel and I encourage the viewers to see in the description I put some links to to secular cetera so you will see the degree of criticism that Jews themselves in Israel have towards the religion Yeah right I think it's mostly just like when it comes to the Islam of the invention of the term Islam of obeah it was mostly non-muslims that I mean Muslim has eventually learned the term and started using it but it was non-muslims trying to defend people try to become the guardian of some people and I think this whole being labeling people as anti-semitic because they're shitting on Judaism is mostly it's done by non-jewish before as well I'll tell you when I do suspect someone is anti-semitic someone can come I think I told you that before where before we had the live chat someone can come with criticism about Israel which i think is valid no I will Israel but ok so that's a separate our transition to that so I think anybody I don't think people have yet learned to share on Judaism because anti-semitic I think they might start learning that because like they try to just like a lot of people that are actually really anti-muslim bigoted they they use the anti I mean most anti Islam views to hide that but that doesn't mean that everybody that speaks against Islam is bigger but some people just jump on that bandwagon but I think most people that are criticizing Judaism looking at the Old Testament I'm like well this is fucking bullshit this is barbaric it's that hasn't been used as by anti-semitic Oh actually yeah nevermind so much that use that as well but yeah you can get into that because I think that's that's a very that's a clear indication of anti-semitism because they think every Jew – they even religiously do those barbaric things that's not yeah they fact that the secular ones believe in it they're just hiding it actually you're actually I've met I met Nazis they think like they did they do look at they bring up a lot of the text actually I changed my opinion they do bring up the text like look at the fuck this the stuff that did the demonic shit that these people believe it so yeah so maybe some people are actually real anti-semites when they're criticized but but but the other point that you were bringing up is that it's okay to shit on Israel policies but some people are actual there are some people that are actually anti-semitic I they're trying to hide under criticism of Israel exactly so I I suspect look first of all if someone brings an argument about Israel to me I don't care even if I think there aren't a Semitic I'll answer the argument because I don't care if it's if he's anti-semitic I can only hope for him to recover from his from mrs. condition you know it's not much I can do but I would answer the argument but I personally would suspect someone is anti-semitic when they criticize Israel on some moral ground but neglect other cases with the same moral ground so if someone is starting telling me oh the occupation of the West Bank is wrong about a lot but he's keeping silent about the Turkish occupation of Cyprus of Northern Cyprus then I say okay hang on if you're really bothered with occupation how come I never saw you demonstrating against Turkey or off or suggesting a boycott against Turkey or how come I never heard you say anything about the Arab occupation of North Africa you have indigenous non Arab people in North Africa or press today I never see you March for them so then I start suspecting that your obsession with Israel is not about justice but but but with the fact that it has something special and what's that special thing it's a Jewish country unlike other countries so then this is when I start suspecting that the person is being anti-semitic if he's silent about other issues and is obsessed with Israel if you look at the at the death toll of the israeli-palestinian conflict since its began let's say a hundred years ago it's not the most lethal conflict in the world it's not the second most it's probably the tenth most maybe not even there so there is no objective reason for people to be obsessed with this particular conflict or situation unless they're either Palestinians or Jew or Jews yes but if they're not their obsession has to defer has to be from ulterior motive and they this is when I start suspecting that the person who is critical of Israel and just knowing the occupation that the injustice is actually not not really caring about justice he's actually obsessed with Jews usually we're seeing some examples of that in the live chat and BJ Christie you guys are removing some some of these views because they're pretty out there but I was wondering if because the Bayesian Chris they are demaged on the live chat I was wondering maybe we should leave them on because I wanna so that we see what we're dealing with yeah yeah I would hope I I don't like censorship at all I'd like to see everything day yeah I mean if somebody is spamming removed them but even if it's anti-semitic let's see what we're dealing with here so let them unlisting started spamming it so much that it just makes it everything oh no it's trollee yes I think they're removing it because I don't know if his trolling guys let us see what they're saying unless the message so much that they take the entire life I think I um I some of the messages above was about I saw in the livestream people are saying there was nine nine nine eleven was done by the Jewish people I think but yeah yeah yeah I don't know look I have I have a personal friend I have a personal friend that thinks that I'm sure he's not anti-semitic but he really thinks that as well and then you have to try with you know conspiracy theories they have this tech tactic they throw little bits of so-called facts then you have to waste your time hours to find and show them why this little fact they said is actually it doesn't indicate anything I I I have little time for them but I can entertain them in the chat you know if they want to yeah actually apparently they all showed up at the same time that's why I think Beach and Christie are being overwhelmed because they're saying Holocaust is a lie there's a lot of stuff happening I think they're taking over their live chat they're putting their whole like his interest is yeah and Christie saying is she has experience dealing with but I'm missing I miss because of all the stuff I missed a whole bunch other questions above feel Mikey okay see you Mikey thank you for pushing it again do you Mikey saying I had a question is there a threat from religious Jews wanting to replace secular law in Israel with religious law from yes Laura okay yes okay yes yes there is they don't go and say we we want now to replace the religious law but they don't they at the same time they don't make a secret out of the fact that they would be happy to have a challah ha state some of them not all of them again but but definitely there is a threat a and as I said before one of them Danny cut away was very clear saying the democracy the tea he doesn't approve of democracy that much and man you have to see the live chat that's been taken over by people oh yeah this is juiced at 9/11 and killed JFK truth is anti-semitic oh my god okay all you guys all you guys there they think dudes conspire and rule the world I got your addresses and we're going to get to you very soon yeah I mean I mean if Jews are taking over the world you guys are fucked in yes you're gone I don't know I'm gonna call the bank others of Justice decent they're going to get to you and be busy saying let us know what what you wanted to I think Beach yeah yeah I think you agree with me let them stay because I want people to see what we have a cancer we are dealing with here right someone asked me there I already don't see the name because he's popped up do I consider Israel an F no state I consider Israel as a nation-state of the Jewish people that's that's the way I would see yesterday for terminology you are mean you wanted to ask me stuff about gay right yes let me give you a list of stuff that they make you go through them one by one right so for example there at the Wailing Wall with make people go pray women are not allowed to pray there I think a lot of women rights active no no no no you've got the facts on the Wailing Wall has separation you have you have a part of it is for women and part of it is for men and there is a barrier in the middle I think the problem was that they were not allowed to what did they want to do I think they want to come with with the Torah book there and and they read the Torah or something of that sort I don't remember exactly what was the problem with with the women in the Wailing Wall they women can definitely come to the Wailing Wall and personally play pray but there was something a bit more blended that they did and then the Orthodox rabbis they who are in charge of the place didn't accept and I don't remember the exact I don't remove the exact there's nuance there okay but that but but whatever discrimination exists is good that people are fighting it right actually between beer my comment on the Wailing Wall is because I personally consider the Wailing Wall as a just as a historical artifact this argument between the two groups of superstition believers bores me you know if the women want to pray there they the one way and the men don't want them for me it's like an argument of two people playing Dungeons & Dragons or something and arguing which which piece in the cooler the game but I don't know I support even if it's if it's all bullshit the fact that is bullshit for only men some men to play I'm glad that people are fighting with further because it exposes how sexist the religion is oh yeah no definitely but I see but for me it's very ironic for a for a Orthodox Jewish woman to complain about being mistreated as a woman when every morning she knows that her husband is praying and saying blessed he who did not create me as a woman right right and she is married every morning so in what she says every morning she says blessed he who created me as he wanted so they it's not like it's balanced yes so so so then so after when you grow up since childhood since childhood that way how are you surprised that you are being mistreated as a woman it's for me it is ironic but yes I certainly I support the right to pray there as they want just the same let me clarify something left had one person say we come with facts and you dismiss us as cancer you are cancer I was in I was in calling you personally as the cancer I was just this I was talking about your views as cancer just to be clear I was in even even you know know when I when I said I hope you'd recover from your condition I went anti-semitism not the cancer or anything like that yeah but yeah I I have no problem calling certain ideas cancer I call it a known cancer all the time I'm not I'm not talking about a certain group of people I'm talking about certain views but Dominator says Jews somebody said Jews are gays do you think that's an insult I don't get that yeah USA people in the world okay and and I supposed to be insulted now because because you call me going yeah yeah so so well you know the incident with Intel where their life said is so amusing right now I don't know if I yeah I know I know I'm used to it but I can see how we can feel find it amusing I I'm already used to it so yeah so it doesn't freak me up just as much no yeah but the way Guevara is asking all kinds of very interesting questions so I'll just note that you asked me about Habad remind me later army ask your question then okay so so did the Sabbath the days that the Indian remembered when the Intel was open on holidays and there was a huge bunch of protests by people that why is it open and holy day why is that a big deal like all or do all private companies are forced to know people are not work during the holy days racially speaking I think the the letter of the law is that yes you're not supposed to operate unless in a Jewish community but let's say if you if you live in an arab village and you open your business and Sabbath no one would care because you know Jewish but but yes I think you're not supposed to employ people on Sabbath unless there are certain there are certain exceptions so some some may let's say restaurants or cinemas they can operate but but I think the law otherwise would give you trouble if you open on the family so what are they what are the secular Jews in Israel secular people in general in Israel doing to fight against this bullshit like it seems like you're losing like yes so the reason was they're doing certain things for some I kept the the example of Tiberius a in in the level of local politics because the municipalities you know they know their people they know the constituency if practically speaking they would not enforce some of the Sabbath bylaws the city of Haifa for example had a very idealistic mayor from from Independence at the who she and he made sure that in her fight there will be public transportation on the Sabbath for example because that's the way it used to be before secondly juice either ignore some of the regulations that they know they're not going to be enforced sometimes they go demonstrate let's say there is a plan to to block another Road on the Sabbath even to private cars because they enable the religious people in the neighborhood once the block they would go to the courts and try and appeal against it they would go demonstrating another thing that secular people are doing and so I mentioned the a secular forum out so we talking about the Sabbath sorry and so when it comes to the Sabbath it's either demonstrations in the street appeals to the courts or political pressure if they can at the local level and that's a the tragedy of Israeli politics is that because it has so many other more dire problems people would might vote to a prime minister that would accommodate the ultra religious people because they think he will manage better other issues that are more important to them so let's say people who think it would be a security disaster to withdraw from the West Bank might still vote for a right-wing government that would accommodate the ultra-orthodox more because I say okay we'll deal with the we'll deal with the religion later just make sure that the country will be saved so at the state level if they're not they're not very active at the local municipal level at the judicial level they try and do as much as they can to to fight the you know the encroachment of the Sabbath regulations but why are they losing so much for what can we do to like what can it be done like is are you hopeful are you or not a I it's hard to say I right now I'm not very hopeful because right now I'm not very hopeful because right now the country is turning the society I feel that the Jewish society in Israel is turning more right-wing and this means the right we will be in power in the right min tends to accommodate the author of the religious demands more see so and I also see and it's hard for me to say because I don't live in Israel now I don't know where the society is turning even more religious but there are hints that it is also turning more religious so I'm not very at the moment but I but I do count on the st. Jude the Jewish culture culture has a strong element of self-criticism and self debate so I do put my hope in in this element of the Jewish culture and hopefully one day the pendulum is going to swing back to the other side so just you'll understand when the country was established or where my parents were youth the religious people were the worry minority that was very even peculiar so the the the culture was very secular they the the cultural meat was very secular and it turned more and more religious with with the years and all yeah I think part of the problem is also the fact that this whole don't criticize Israel you're anti-semitic because then it's really hard to get of the global secular community against your religious dogma dogma when any attack on policies is seen as an attack on the entire nation or an attack on the Jews as an ethnicity so it's hard to find global allies when when people think like that right and and I think a lot of people a lot of atheists means you know when they went instead of joining the fight against the religion growing in Israel instead of focusing on that they kept the constantly point to how much things are better in Israel compared to Islamic countries and it seems like the that content makes me it makes them not really fight for the the increasing influence of religion because they have such a low standard here go you're talking about outside deities no yes thank you me because I think like yes support of you know I see as the atheist community as a global movement and we also trying to light on how religion is fucking up our things around us and by bringing out international attention like for example Iran they keep recording people mullahs that are being harassing women for their bad job and that international pressure keeps printing pressure on the country as a whole right so this this whole the secular secular people are on the world I think like need to have each other's back and bring attention to this but I think Israel doesn't get the desert the increasing influence of religion in Israel it's not getting the attention it deserves because a lot of one for two reasons one because people are afraid of being anti-semitic and two because people were like we'll look at its neighbors it's much better like at least they're not beheading people at least they have a gay pride for a tell me what other Muslim countries have gay pride parades I mean they had I've kissed but they canceled it delivered and had once actually in Saudi Arabia you can be a man to women trans did you know that in Iran Saudi Arabia in Iran yeah yes I think that's a part of patriarchy thing but we you mean like like in Iran if you want to have sex with your own gender or you have to do a transgender operation even though you're not trans like it's weird anyways but but back to Israel I think I think the thing is with Israeli there are two angles here outside I think outside the eighth night or critics of religion I think many of them think that Israel is not the major problem at the moment also I think their criticism of the Jewish religion is not that well educated so it so it's hard for a Jewish atheist to join forces with them because they don't really understand what Talmud is they don't understand how Jewish theology theology currently is dealing with problematic text but Jewish atheist in or Israeli atheist I don't think they feel they need any international support I think they're they feel quite competent they the thing is even I before I spoke to you I said I wonder what of how much of what I say will then be used just to vilify Israel entirely by some people it's it's something that we consider because there are people out there that there are just in the business of vilifying Israel and so you're very careful not to criticize the country that you basic love and that you you know you've served you've lived there because you don't know what of what you say could be taken out of constant context just to vilify the country as a whole and then you know someone someone two weeks from now can say look Israel is very bad it's doing this in Gaza it's doing this there there and even there was this die honest guy called Yuval and he even pointed out that they're doing that as well so I don't want to contribute to that I'm very reluctant to continue so I guess that's one of the reasons that why Israeli atheists but it isn't don't seek international support in their particular struggle and isn't that kind of like a bigotry of low expectations kind of like yeah we criticize it everywhere but since this happening we can't we can't we can't handle criticism of like I don't know it seems like not fair I think no it's just tiptoeing around people's sense it you know sensitive nature about like something else I mean you should I think it would be I think it would actually help show that look we're criticizing these things as well because a lot of people a lot of people might use that as a way to show that you know even you know you you guys you guys are too sensitive about even criticizing a policy I think I think if people are openly more self critical it demonstrates how openly how open they are to change and progress and oh I don't think I don't think Israeli atheist or secular people are hiding their criticism and in the links that I've put in the description you'd see they come with English subtitles in the links that you mentioned yes it's on YouTube in our description I will once the live set is over I copy and paste it on Facebook as well Facebook doesn't let us add the description before we go alive but right now right now it's on YouTube it's not on Facebook but we're going to end it but you'll see we're in Israeli secular people did they don't make a circuit are out of their criticism but they would not seek active support the way let's say atheist Muslims do and they do need more support obviously atheist Muslims would do need more support when it issues a stay Jews are very competitive in standing tall and express their opinions in Israel like they don't well they're not we're not winning right now they're losing so they need international support but what I I'm trying to think how would that international support be a look like what what exactly do you think is going to happen well because I let up by international support I'm not talking about political support I'm talking about activists average people bringing attention to you know to to nonsense right I think the embarrassment does put into does put pressure on a country to change right a lot of times something is a big big deal in in the country and they know that this is a problem but once it goes mainstream everywhere then people in the country they're like okay we need to do something about this this is fucking embarrassing right like because every every country wants to have a good international image so once the activists in there in the country whether it's in your on Israel Pakistan show the whole world like look what the fuck we'd have to deal with and becomes an embarrassment then people the officials were like okay this is not very good for our image we don't we need to do a PR correction here it is an influence it works I mean if it works I'm sorry fucking Arabia that they they like that seems to not give a shit about anything when it comes to knowledge and as we see that actually sometimes they get pressured so much that even they have to change it worked it should work on every country but anyway we gotta first had my sister Sheikh say yeah I wanted to relate to that so be I answer your thinking in a minute sister sheiks that she asked me how why do you support Israel if you're an atheist right instead cheat this was the question yeah first of all I'd recommend you to go back to the video because I refer to it before how can you be an atheist and a Jew and the nationalistic so please go back to the video to the beginning if you still don't find the answer contact me on Facebook or night least public and I will answer more answer the question in greater detail now to what you said about in about external pressure where can she find you like a facebook on atheist Republic on Facebook just my name is there so just put a comment on our video there and I will comment back to you okay thank you first yeah now to your question because of the history of Judaism and the Jewish culture external pressure is not as effective on on Jewish societies as it is in AD in other societies Jews were vulnerable and exposed to external pressure for thousands of years whatever you going to exercise now is peanuts for them it sits with no comparison to what they've been when they and they have very good the Jewish society has very good mechanisms to deal with theoretical ideological external pressure it's not oh no it's gone it's not going to change much the only thing it's gonna do is it's gonna make the right wing or the religious point out the 80s and say look at these treacherous you know treacherous lefties that go again overseas and smear our name or something which of course I'm not going to take seriously as well but it's not I don't think it's going to have any external any influence I mean people are more than welcome to criticize in Israel on their religious grounds I don't care Israelis very open to criticism and can cope with it and so sorry I'm reading a sister chick second so it distracts me so is Israel it will be will cope with this criticism it will answer it one way or another I don't think external criticism will have any effect on the role of religion within Israel maybe it will embarrass some people maybe some people say ok this is a bit embarrassing you know and we'll stop being apologetic but the main struggle should happen in Israel by Israeli atheists and secular people and I can only hope they're gonna know we're gonna win well I think I think people shouldn't just only look for change from within I think people globally Koosh can I should rely on each other by the way I really do think that we should read some of this nonsense that we're saying in the faction do you and I like the one that is there Israelis Isis or something so we're yeah thanks thanks I'm going to behead you after the video just be aware of it be careful I know I'm not going to sorry YouTube is out sometimes its algorithms no no I didn't say there there was my accent there yeah I meant something what I am what yes and you don't know the meaning who wish who are you referring to thanks sorry so sister chic sir I think you've asked me how can I be a nice taste and support Israel I think that was your first question wasn't it yeah but let us let me scroll back let me see yeah she said that meaning why Evan as an atheist why would you support Israel okay so if you don't mind our mean I'm going to refer to that so let's say you're an atheist and you look at the plight of the Kurdish people you would you would still support them because you acknowledge there they are they have a collective identity i my argument is that Jews had a collective identity which is not only driven by their religion and I gave before the example of the of the Greek people they don't have to worship Jews a Zeus in order to be acknowledged as Greek they are still a collective a collective as such and before they had their independence and they were oppressed by the Turks people would still support them regardless of whether they worship Jews Zeus or whether they were Greek Orthodox they acknowledged that they were a nation my argument is the Jews are not only members of descendants of practitioners of a certain religion but they're also they have a collective identity as a nation and if you acknowledge the right of collective to define themselves as such you should technologies for Jews just the same I personally don't agree with that but that's a different argument when it comes to identity and ethnicity I don't really think ethnicity is a good source of identity I think ideas matter more than ethnic identity I think me am and me and you have more in common based on ideas rather than anything that has has got to do with our ethnic background or were a place of birth I say so so so that's why I really don't see geography or DNA as a good source of identity because but I think so first of all in my five minute video on 19th Republic video reports there was a person I forgot his name I apologize but he had we had a short and interesting discussion exactly about that so you welcome to read what I answered him there but I think I think you have the the ought and he is so the art is that we all considers ourselves as as neutral human beings and relate to each other based on ideas only there is is that we we most people do have a sense of a need for it for a sense of identity and they're also identified by their surroundings based on on an identity and these needs are the ones that create naturally unless again I'm nicely our F which which turned out to be ethnic which turned out turned out to be ethnic but we have proven that it doesn't have to be no not mostly I think that I do acknowledge that we need an identity and I mean how could we not but I do I don't agree that that sense of identity has to do anything to should have anything to do with our ethnic background I think your ideas tell me more way more like if you say I agree with this I don't agree with this this is the values that I aspire to that tells me a lot more about who you are then if you tell me that you're Persian or you're Arab or if you're ethnically Jewish doesn't tell me much about me and I could and I could see myself as which you or against you or neutral towards you more than bit more based on the values that yes why had values that you have and the ideas that you agree with way more than any of those things that you'd met you didn't have a choice you don't have a choice you didn't have a choice but you didn't have a choice of brothers and I would like I think that you feel closer to your brothers not even though you don't agree with them actually that's a very good examples because the reason why I I feel closer to my brothers is because I grew up with them if if if I found out that one of them was adopted now I would not ever I would not see them not as my brother yeah they can be your brother yes so if you want them and if one day somebody shows up and say that is genetically my brother I wouldn't feel closer closer to them at all just because I just found that that they're genetically my brother so I think they left that experience so again it has nothing to do with blood nothing to do with DNA though I think I think you an exception I think most human beings function differently not because they were educated to I think that although I'm an atheist just like you someone knocks on my door and says you know you may not know that but I'm your long-lost brother even if he's an ultra Orthodox Jew or a or a jihadi or whatever I would feel some affiliations to him not because I think that's the right thing to do but because that's the way my psychology I do but yeah and make sense you know it's not it doesn't make sense because we're not we not totally rational creatures we creatures with needs that are not necessary it's like it is as if I come to you and show you and show you on the table that you know I come with status in to show you that that the love of your life your wife actually I can now show you with each and every measure that she falls behind someone else that doesn't matter you still gonna be in love with her and feel and feel close to her because it's not not everything in in the world I mean I'm not suggesting that she is by the way are mean I think she's grateful Matic seen in the photos but hey okay but what I'm trying to say what I'm trying to say is we're not rational creatures all the time and ideally and I'll put it in in a different way if we now make an experiment and somehow erase all ideologies and thoughts for people and throw them in a newly discovered continent my prediction would be that in a matter of a few generations they they will form up in groups of two or three million people each approximately right on neck it would just happen it would be yeah forever nature but not everything it is natural is good right oh that's right but the thing is so now we go back to the national idea so you have this group of let's say 10 million people let's say the Jews and they had two options they can either try and and change the mentality of the remaining 2 billion at the time or they can try and function within this mentality and find the nation-state these are the two options now if I had a way of changing the mentality of the currently 7 billion people I do it I promise today I promise you that I would but I don't so so it's not so the left 2news so it's not about changing things of a very a nation-state and for me a nation-state not always but in certain places is not the optimal solution but it's the best that you can have at the moment me I would hope but nation-state is different from an explanation state I mean okay what's the difference because I'm missing out on the difference here I mean let's let's take Poland would you say Poland is an ethnos state or a nation state it depends okay so the it depends on if we're talking about the origins I'm not talking about how they originate it right when it says when you're talking about an external state you're talking about whether their policies today is in favor of certain ethnicities in there in all countries right I think right so so I think like if if what whatever Israel's the way started wherever Poland started it doesn't it doesn't matter for today what matters today is that if if you're an Arab in Israel and you're an Arab citizen if you're treated exactly like a Jew and you feel like you belong to this country as much as the Jew then you're not unless mistake even if most people there are Jewish right as long as the policy right now doesn't give you any fucking favors right yeah so what I would like ideally my ideal Israel for me the ideal Israel would be that it would be non-ethnic at all within within the state itself but but that it would still allow any Jew who wants to come there to come without any restrictions that's the only thing that I would laser there being a Jew test as favoritism like so yes I would like it to have the faith the favor ISM in the migration policy because this is the problem that it was built to solve and the problem still exists if tomorrow there won't be any more anti-semitism in the world at all and Jews would be safe and all that maybe I would change my mind that's not the case I mean I usually look at the live check I mean Jews are also safe in United States I mean it's not you know ok Jews okay if you look at Jewish history for they on the long run Jews were safe in certain countries till they weren't so yeah Poland was once a safe haven for you but but okay but even if I disagree with you that that that the framing of that argument is not that these people need a country because their ethnic leaders like I'm not gonna completely agree with you with that but I think that framing would be more acceptable to me if it was like these people need a place because they are oppressed no I mean that's that if there's a difference to me I think but most all they're oppressed as Jews and I know but did you did you the Jewish element is not the element that the main reason the oppressed element is the reason do you I mean like if we if I if if I'm landing a helicopter in isis-held territory and two people come to me and one of them says I'm a Yazidi women and another person says I'm a I'm a certainly man and I have only one more spot left I'm glad we like okay yes either woman you're you're up yeah because because you're if I let you hear you you probably have watchlist chances and and then the then this one you Muslim Matt right yeah but but it's not because I think he's easy women our needs are superior than other people no no no it's not about it there's nothing special about being Yazidi it's because your identities use as a target but again that's the difference between mentality of the I think people that if the nationalists what if the nationalist not argue for Arab nationalism not because they're saying these group of people are oppressed or trying to save any group of people and some of them to try to make that excuse why people are being erased or something like that but but it's the best that's something special about that race that deserve something because of no that's that's not the case that I'm making the case that I'm making is and that's not only me if you go back to Theodor Herzl that was this guy's Theodor Herzl try to be a general Jew in the world it just didn't work so we said okay guys it doesn't work we must have have an ethnos state because any others another way we try to solve the didn't work so it's a it's they are resort is to heaven F no state I don't sneak and s no state is the best way to live in the world but unfortunately a reality doesn't give me the luxury of day of waving this idea because I can tell you even best based on the personal experience of my own family if my grandmother didn't turn Zionists in the 20s I wouldn't be here talking to you thank God for yes do you read the fingers SS it only makes sense for for oppressed groups I think states are justified if they solve a genuine problem that cannot be solved otherwise otherwise I'll make up any other examples any other example I did in Israel that this makes sense yes I can think of the Kurds making a very good case for their ethnic failures occurred yes I can definitely see the Kurds making a good case any any other I can see for example they the African Sudan Sudan is what is now South Sudan that were targeted systematically because they were not Arabs they were systematically and not Muslim they were systematically targeted by the north and they had to repel several times until they got their independence or else I'm gonna lose them feel my kissing just my opinion I support Israel as an atheist because Israel is a secular state and it defends a threatened minority that steal my keys opinion sisters she cars is asking another question do you believe in the Holocaust of course I do yes I'm sure I believe that it happened I don't believe in it as a good way of absorbing [Laughter] okay so terms and a lot of people in the chair do you want us humor their life to the the anti-jewish oh yeah go for it if it's funny yeah I did was a parentheses around curse apparently course is does that mean that queers are Jewish conspiracy as well is there were two people in the left jab what can people actually actually here's a fun fact you the front is genetically speaking genetically speaking because they've checked it Jews Palestinian Arabs and Kurds are the closest genetically I think in the world okay but by the way shout out to beach and Christie for being so patient I know they hate this shit in the live chat right now and they did I'm sorry I know that they're listening to me and you letting saying that all these people let them be here so Christian Beach thank you so much for being so patient with all this nonsense right now a lot of people are asking 6 million 6 million yes 6 million well obviously not to be exact figure but the the rough figure in six million years so really do you wanna have it like a you know so today's discussion was a bad religion in Israel you want to ask me about gay people so I'll just I'll just know something about gay people so obviously the rabbinical institutions in Israel are the ones that have the monopoly on marriage so what do gay people do they cannot be recognized as married but they can be recognized as common-law spouses so in terms of Finance and all the economic aspects of being married they actually enjoy the same rights but no they cannot come and say register themselves as married because of the religion okay so by the way sorry be says yes we do like yes they want to actually remove all these people so I know so thank you so much for guys so the reason I think that the comments like this needs to be stay I don't I don't I don't believe in censorship is because it just showed like I think let me know being Christy which are the Muslim that I said do you guys think that Chris is saying this is fucking nuts yeah it's fucking nuts but don't you think that people should Christian bitch don't you think people should see how nuts this is like look at this life chat is amazing I think it has a cultural value I think we should keep it for for inform you know it says a nucleating values we should know what what we're doing with people people need to see what we're dealing with the president going says present going says a six million sounds like another July okay so I have a great what other jew-jew lies do you know I'm not curious he has a catalog of jhula Jewish lies that he knows that me nasty guys is putting the three prints by the way for people that don't know anti-semitic language when you put three parentheses around something it either means that this person is a Jew or it's a Jewish because it's a Jewish like conspiracy oh yeah oh you didn't know that – oh these things that I saw every time when you don't want it when you want to try it and hide your anti-semitic these from the coke with yeah so you put three princesses around whatever you want to point to people it this guy is a Jew and I actually I'm actually I'm actually surprised with eensy and 8088 I I expected an 88 to show up you know the figure 88 that people put where is 88 they're not it's like it's like 4 HH HH like Heil Hitler so they don't they don't write the cool phrase they just put 88 they put it gay people in three princesses and I think that they were they're trying to say is that the whole gay rights movement is also a Jewish person just obvious for people that don't know that their narrative what the narratives of and a lot of anti-semitic views are is that the Jewish people have this global conspiracy to just to weaken all advanced civilizations and Jewish people again so somebody's gonna cut this part out as if I'm saying it but if they have taken down many empires and now Great nations are going to be also taken down by them away they are people without nation but they just sneaking their way in every place and they basically take down nations by trying to take away everything that makes a country or a nation strong yeah I just hope your guys are mean doesn't believe in it yeah and I'm just describing describing that if if someone is doing now they yes right now the video is not a chance for I I follow I follow a lot of these people from the alt-right although if I try to understand as much as possible what the people's narratives are so they think like family the family is an important thing that makes it make civilizations great the and basically the Jewish conspiracy they're trying to take it down with the feminism but gay rights movement with trans right movement but they don't want these things for their own country so Israel for example wants to keep s know States for itself but because in and there says how powerful having an Eskimo state is but it wants to go and advocate for diversity everywhere else because it weakens other countries because diversity is a weakness for every country and all this Muslim stuff ice everything it Muslim immigration all of this stuff is a Jewish conspiracy to make the other countries weak have I got seen you guys right everybody like let me know if I got your someone says I mean arming exposed I don't know what they mean but maybe so except by the way six days is the hideous term for a non-jewish woman yeah so maybe that's why he calls us off that okay she thing isn't hiding your ethnicity kind of dishonest well I'm not hiding it I just don't think it's important anybody and everybody knows where I'm from I just don't think it's a big deal it's not it's not it's no how is it hidden everybody knows where I'm from everybody knows me knows where I'm from it's on my facebook flower over that one is asking me explain your satanic town hood so obviously I'm not going to explain to you why tis not satanic but since you brought up Talmud and a lot of critics of Judaism yeah bring up top I will say something about Dominique I think people is getting it wrong Talmud is not the Word of God Talmud is not a scripture that came the Jews think God said childhood is basically built as a discussion between scholars a making their opinion about issues and making them logically in their way so they would draw conclusions logically why they think their interpretation of the text is better than the other rabbi so so and if you ever go to a Jewish a Shiva to a scholary Jewish institution you that a very common way of stabbing the text is with in couples you see two people standing in front of one book and then they would be debating it's long it's not one person standing in the writing something to another person that just has to sit and listen it's two people standing next to a book debating and this is how tell me the Talmud is built so when people come and say a it says in the Talmud that and then they break up some nonsense yeah it's nonsense but it's not that one rabbi in the Talmud says says it doesn't mean that every every person who wrote the Talmud agrees with this particular person so C Omega T is asking where is it go this live chat is so active because with hates that I guess everything is growing but so you make you think do you think Israel's founding is similar to America's manifest destiny if so isn't it fair to say it's hard to morally justify it now okay we should instead focus on problems now no I okay I don't think the concept of manifest destiny to people to the dinner I think if I get the concept of manifest destiny correct a the American leaders that they'd spoke about manifest destiny felt that it was I know if they didn't think God wanted them to do it but felt that this is something that destiny a promises to emit to the American people so their justification for expansion was it was this is our destiny and we have to fulfill it I don't know what was their moral justification for this destiny but it was the sense of fulfillment of something that that was meant for you to fulfill from some I don't know what history or God I've know what was their justification for that for their destiny so hey that's not the case of Israel unless you talk unless you offer you speak to a religious Zionist that and they believe that's piyah part of a divine plan but did you speak to a secular zionists like myself I don't think it's a matter of destiny it's a matter of resolving a problem for for the group that you belong to and this is the group of a problem as such so it's not a problem of an individual they have they experience problems because they were Jews and then they had to find a solution to this problem and approach the solution they suggested by the way they were other Jews that suggested other solution I will get to it in a minute but the solution that the Zionists suggested was to create a nation-state and then they said okay so where is this nation-state going to be well it's going to be where we came from that's that's it that is the most most logical place to go and great I have to read the next one because these are going very fast yeah Arthur is saying I understand that you wish to know what you're dealing with yet friend this chat is being attacked by trolls who are spewing evil and hatred will you draw a line in the sand the thing is that Arthur the removing these people from the live chat is not going to make their ideas go away and I don't know if a lot of people understand how common these views are and I think more people need to see how common these views are because most people think that this is a small problem but you can see how big of a thing is armchair what is this I went on somebody said stop saying where is it go to everyone stop saying ok here I've never had a live chat this active ok a word I worry about the young Semites out there for your own benefit don't post so much because otherwise we can't follow your own nonsense yes so suddenly I'm sure something is saying stop saying we hate we're just exposing Jewish supremacy we do it out of love for Humanity oh that's really clever and Q did you come up with it all by yourself or did someone help you here's one thing that Jewish religion gives to the dead ant I submit here so the Jewish religion is absolutely nonsense just like every other religion out there right and the thing is that just like a lot of bigots you know we shit on Islam as an ideology because Islam is an ideology is also nonsense but I think just like a lot of bigots against Muslims as people use the nonsense in Islam as a way to attack Muslims as people a lot of people a lot of people that are against Jewish people as as individuals use a lot of nonsense in Jewish scripture which is absolutely nonsense the Jewish religion is barbaric batshit crazy ancient you know bullshit but they use it as a way to direct their hate towards people and I think one of one of the things that is part of the nonsense of the Jewish religion is the Jewish supremacy as an ethnic group like that okay I have I have to attend I have to attend that because I think this is a bit that is getting wrong very often and by people that also pretend to be very educated about I'm not referring to you I'm referring to to academics and all in a there are two there there is a main difference between Judaism and let's say Islam or Christianity a in two major things and this relates to the apparent supremacy Jew even the most extreme Jew in the world that doesn't think the Jews should take over the entire world the most he wants to Jews to take over with or over is the promised land and and that's it secondly even the most desperate Jew in the world I'll get to the supremacy in a minute but I'll explain to you why why how it relate even the most extreme Jew in the world doesn't want everyone to convert them and become Jewish now when it juice when when the Jew uses the term the chosen people let's say when people use the term the chosen people it doesn't mean that I have more privileges privileges than the Jew comparing to a non Jew on the contrary I'm obliged as a Jew for far more a far more than the non Jew ease of life too so God will be happy with you as a non Jew far faster then he will be happy with me because I have more to account for so yes I'm chosen but I'm chosen for what not for more privileges I'm chosen for more obligations and this is the bit that people get get wrong I know now when it comes hang on hey when it comes to the promised land or today according to the to the Jewish Scriptures yes of course they're Jews have more rights than others because according to religion in this particular promised land da God promised it to them and the rest are you know are foreigners in the land so obviously there is an element of Supremacy there but not there is no element of you being chosen as a human being more than another person and now you're more privileged generally speaking I mean I talked to a rabbis energy people and if I got to complete differences on this because I met many Jewish people you keep an eye on the sister comics area so that think that at the end of the day this is very religious Jews don't think that at the end of the world Jews will take over and all non-jews will be slaves and I heard I heard that I heard little sales opinion I I heard that said I am not that much of a Jewish quarter to know maybe they found someone with a three-team but I don't know I've seen well I think it's from the Talmud I'm not sure but so if I say as I explained again what almond was Talmud is debate between various rabbis so it's not Talmud is not the Word of God Talmud is the word of various rabbis and it end but the idiot has authentic as word of God they see themselves I mean Talmud to Talmud is the rabbi's are the agents of how to live at the rabbi's in the Talmud himself not don't always agree with each other yeah I understand it but but they still see it as a bad thing yeah but but let me let me make my point I do there's a lot of extreme Jews that think that that non-jews are subhuman and I've seen them say that themselves that the subhuman that there will be slave one day and they don't think that's a mean thing to say because they think that actually it's an honor to be a slave for a Jew again this is a very minority fringe group but yes yeah but that's like saying okay it's like going it's like going to a German person who is proud of his German heritage and blame him for what not ceases the fact that you have no knowledge obviously I'm not doing that are you saying I'm being mean or the Jews no no no but no no but what I'm saying what I'm saying is that the fact that they those religious Jews say those things that you just said doesn't mean that they're their religion mandates it they picked they picked one you know the talent you can pick in the Talmud sleeps of stuff they just make a decent just like Hadees in Islam the Quran itself has is fair oh no it's not extra hadith because I because hadith is what Muhammad said or did and then people but there is disagreement on that was authentic hadith says right just like the disagreement on the TEL mood so the Quran is very no but the hadith if you bring a sentence from the hadith that sentence is a quotation of the let's assume we will turn off phytic one right no yeah but there but there's a disagreement between she has a certain ease for example which ones are the authentic words no but let's say we take a hadith it everyone say sorry is authentic okay what in there is things that Muhammad said now Muhammad has a very specific role and image in the theology of Islam the Talmud the people who speak in the Talmud they're not equivalent in Judaism to what Muhammad is in Islam the quotations in the Talmud are not are not quotations of someone who is as important in Judaism as Muhammad is in Islam so yes I'm sure you can find a lot of Joe phobic stuff but but you say about hadith in Islam again I'm playing devil's advocate because I do think hey this is very high up there very close to the Quran when it comes already but but you can say like yeah but there's disagreement whether or not this is what Muhammad said or not do yes like even if Muslims agree that if Muhammad said this this is absolute truth and you have to follow it that's not the disagreement the disagreement is not whether or not follow Muhammad's way or not the disagreement is on whether or not Muhammad actually you had this right so once once you have an agreement that Muhammad said II yeah then then it's there but it still makes it makes that source a little bit questionable again not a squish maybe not as questionable for us but the but we can say whether or not you see Tom mood as as an authentic part of Judaism or not it is an authentic part of our binnacle children but it's not the Word of God that's there at the point it's very wise debating issues don't we can definitely say that the Talmud is horseshit right well I I don't use such terms but I don't believe in Talmud yeah I don't use horseshit I wouldn't trade the word horseshit but yeah I don't believe in Talmud I don't I I if I see something in the tunnel that I think makes sense I'll accept it not because it's from the Talmud but because it makes sense is the rule but I if something comes of the Talmud that's not a source of authority for me I don't consider thumb of the source of authority for me but even if you were I mean and the Torah the same let's if the COS say you that you should not kill I will not kill because I think it doesn't make sense to kill not because the Torah said it right now but I mean I don't like people like I look at the Quran and it only takes a good person well then you're not looking at the Quran you're just using your own moral compass right yes I'll take away the Talmud is not monolithic the Talmud can be caught self-contradicting yeah but but that's but that's not a good thing that that man that makes it a very useless source of moral guidance just get throw it away and use your own logic right you are expecting me to recommend the Talmud as a moral guidance then they're there no wasting your time I'm not going to recommend it but I don't like you when people say like you know I know I understand that the Quran or the Bible is nonsense but I could get some good things out of it no if you're if you're cherry-picking then then that's not a source of anything you're just using your own moral compass oh but I'll give you an example I'll give you an example you know you know the medication adilyn for drug addicts hollander it's a medication for driving to try to rehabilitate adilyn was named the reason the named adalynn is driven from the name adult because the person who invented a Dolan was an admirer of Adolf Hitler so what you think because the first time I came across this medicine it came from a Nazi I'm not going to use it yeah I will use it even though the first person who came by then you don't give credibility to that person though you don't you just say this just makes sense but I'm not yes exact words but the thing is but don't pick it out of the Quran or the Talmud or the or the Torah or reliable I pick it from whoever gives it to me if he is the first one to give it I don't care who gives it to me if it's a good thing but if it's a beginning okay okay but the thing is that first of all there's no good things in the cateura or the Quran or the Bible I think I think thou shalt not kill is a good thing no no it doesn't make any sense of all the Dowell should not kill does not make any sense first of all because it's the same book that tells you to kill a whole bunch other people right so if you look at the look at the links to the satire look because there is one bit that in first exactly said yeah but but the thing is that thou shalt not kill is such as it's such a simplistic rule you know for thousands of years philosophers have came up with ethics like the Greeks and the Romans philosophers have discussing is nothing it's like it's like hey kill these people rape those people burn the witches stone gay people and and then also OPIC are to your neighbor oh thank you so much that's very kind of you to add that there and it's nothing is so simplistic and it's so basic moral guidance that has has added no value anis it has no nuance it has no and it's nothing compared to the philosophers and and the discussions around ethics for for thousands of years that came before the Bible and they introduced nothing new and people people pretend like they have revolutionized like oh judo Meli's I don't care about who came up with it first what I care about if I see good idea I don't know where I don't care where it comes from I'll take so let's look at the Torah for example the tour came up with the idea that you work six days and then you rest one day I think it's a good thing that that you have a week and then you have one day where you don't have to go to work I think there's a rule that's a nice idea and I'm happy with it no it don't make a very heavy no one I have a weekend no a very happy the weekend but you just judge based on circumstances if you come up with a general rule like that it's gonna it's gonna fuck up with your life you know unexpected way it's just like you have to look at the situation this is a problem with religion they came up with general rules for everything no matter what that's nonsense you're gonna have to look at every single scenario so in the case of Judaism I think it is a very good a very good job at getting into the very tiny details and I don't see I don't follow the edges but I can't one thing you cannot blame Judaism is that it can't comes with general rules and then and doesn't care for the context it's the same it's the same book that tells you to cut your kind of woman's hands off if it was if it was trying to defend her husband in a fight by grabbing the other person's balls like that's the best book we're talking about what do you talk I don't know that's from the Thoreau but okay it's in the Old Testament doesn't make it it was a part of the tour I really when two men are fighting right if the wife of one of them comes and tries to protect her own husband and grabs other man's balls and in in the Old Testament I'm just now you've got me curious which book in the Old Testament I have to me later okay but the point is you know what you have to do in that situation you have to cut off her head and and you have sure no pity like what the fuck is that and you're talking about this broker like oh yeah army I mean you're you are debating the wrong person I don't know saying I'm not no no I know you disagree with this nonsense okay I know you're in a chair you disagree but what I'm saying is that a book that has those kind of stuff in it should not get credit for just say just a warm fuzzy positive my message here and I don't give okay I'm not giving credit to the book as a whole I don't care if if tomorrow I open mine come and mine come said it's good to brush your teeth twice a day exactly wow that's that's a good idea but I'm not going to say oh man cough is such a great book I'm just gonna say oh I found something useful in mine come but I'm gonna ask you like did you not know that you have to brush your teeth before he says like that's what I would ask that's what I would like did exactly that's a great example because he's like oh so if you didn't if thou shalt not kill did you not were you gonna go kill people around only if you didn't read that in the Old Testament that's my question right yes so I I can't think of an example now that I didn't know in advance but at the same time I'm a product of Jewish society so maybe all the things that I knew in advance were a product of the scripture I don't know I think lately proton therapy I'm trying to make a general point here if I see if you see a good idea it doesn't matter which book it comes over a good idea is a good idea and a bad one is a bad one now I definitely I personally would not give credit to a whole book just because it has one good idea and heaps of bad ideas I'm not going to do it I say an average if people start if they just individually look at ideas and cut do cost-benefit analysis they shouldn't give they shouldn't look they should look at religion as like oh I'm a product of my environment or my identity of my ethnicity or of my parking well stop being put a product of that and stop start being a product of your own logic and your own analysis the more your product of your environment the less the less you are actually I mean I'm not saying you did that okay we're I mean yeah but I'm just saying that that's not a good there's sort of good excuse everything when we say I understand that you're not saying that but when we say like well this came out of the Quran and I judge it to be a good thing I just think that a lot of people are not most of the time are trying to give some credibility to the Quran or the PI bow tutorial when they say that that's a real varial thing I think it's a very weak line of defense I generally say I generally say it's not it's not a big deal for me if you show me that there is something good in a certain book or in a certain ideology that's not that my what my what I care about is at the end of the day where this ideology has done good to the world or birth to the world as a whole I don't care so yes I'm very happy that Arabs no longer bury their daughters as they are born as they used to do before Islam I think that's a lie that yeah they made that up just to say that how much Islam improved there's no evidence that they were doing that they made that story out to just show how Islam improved everything okay so I know I come up with other thing I don't know what if myself they were doing that Islam may they used to okay I'm I'm in common they're very every fucking dollar like daughters were an asset I mean they did it seemed as property why would you destroy your own asset so you could sell off that doesn't make any fucking sense but yeah but anyway I'm if you tomorrow you show me something good that Islam has changed I'll be happy that he did it but that doesn't that doesn't exam has done nothing good Muslims okay okay but Muslims have done many Muslims have done good Islam has done hypothetical let's be hypothetical for a second and assume that Islam or Judaism or Christianity has introduced one good idea to the world let's assume for a second yeah my it's my reach biggest addition we my responses it would be if it's a good idea I take it but that doesn't mean that I believe that there is an imaginary entity up there that I have to follow it doesn't one doesn't follow from the other right and my claim is that they none of them have introduced a single original good idea not only they not only that they have not done that what they have done that is that they have taken some good original ideas and they have ruined it and they have simp and they Christianity and Judaism was a step backwards when it comes to progress of mankind it was nothing yeah okay well in that case this kind of argument you will have to have you have to have with the Jewish theology and our rabbi because I'm simply not qualified enough to answer inch and everything the hubris okay I hope the right person to talk about let me let me close this very soon Jeff that the question you're asking is very interesting but I don't think we should we keep we have time to address it here we'll bring that up and it s the nationalist discussion I'm gonna try to remember that SEO Mikey is saying here's a question for for you based on how often religious Jewish apologists bring up the Talmud does that word ever become synonymous to excuses I don't know I'm not doing the question based on how often religious Jewish apologists bring up the Talmud does that word ever book like I think what we're saying is that the Talmud is being used by anti-jewish people not by Jewish is it dude Jewish apologist bring up the Talmud often I think about it more often we don't know I don't know Talmud tell Moody's is the main is the main text that they study in the yeshivas but brackets not just because it's it the best of my understanding they just they it has to do with ideas about how you should run your life and then they are rabbis debating in the Talmud debating certain problems and how to solve it based on the scriptures that's that's what our mood is so it's basically a compilation of discussions yeah I always yeah I I kind of still think that the relationship of Talmud Torah is kind of like the relationship between Hadees no to the coroner because the main characters because the main characters into mood are not equivalent to move on to Muhammad in their theological status right but I the way they way that I see the correlation is kind of like when you have the Quran and then you have the Hadees to come up with the tafseer to explain how to live our life according to the Quran but this is not a seal this is not have seer but have Siri uses Hadees okay that's a different story so is it have seemed closer to tell mucha have see a tough seal from what I know it goes verse by verse so you have the Quran then you have enough seer that explains verse by verse so no because I don't think to the best of my understanding who doesn't go verse by verse a so I don't I'm not sure there is an equivalent I'm though I don't know enough about Islamic theology I'm not sure there is an equivalent to Talmud but basically if in Islamic theology you have a compilation of Islamic scholars debating issues then that would be probably more equivalent to the Talmud I mean think about the whole bunch of rabbis just comment this commentary isn't it it's it's the what the best that I understand I'll have to you if you I'll have to read more to be more accurate before the might the best of my understanding is Talmud is built with issues that are then discussed by different rabbis and they bring different reasonings why their their position on the issue is is the one that should be followed and actually Talmud yeah Alex the question you're asking and we addressed a little bit earlier if go back and watch it later cos saying the thank you so much for this deal he's saying dude there are me do you always have a problem Deuteronomy Deuteronomy 25 the chapter 25 verses 11 to 12 is where the rule for to cut off the hands of wives who grab balls during a fight Deuteronomy 25 fair enough I mean they get I mean other examples are the fact that you have to stone a woman in front of her father's house if she has six out of marriage if you rape somebody before they be a woman a virgin then you have you could just go pay the father and you then you own her and she's forced to marry her rapist this is all in the Torah this is all but yeah that's why why are you telling me to me are you expecting it I'm telling it to our audience so just just say I know a just to be very clear to everybody you are an atheist and you are an anti religion I'm critical I'm very critical over the Jewish religion and I will not I will not go i I will not start go evangelizing the world to atheism that's not my thing I would not go and liberally convince religious people to become atheist if they leave me alone I'm going to leave them alone that's fine here it's my if they that's me that's me but I see but this what I mean I can have that discussion for you forever I don't know I see a value in trying to convince people out of their religion and I have been doing that for the past 14 years I mean I mean I I'm happy when it happens but but on but if I live in a place for example I live in Australia I don't even know what's the religion of my memories I mean to me even if because he doesn't make a big deal out of it so I don't know maybe the Christian and most I don't know it doesn't it you have to fight bullshit whether or not it's influencing or not because I mean as a general rule the less people believe in bullshit the better it is for Humanity I think even even if somebody to me and heed the example I give is like if peaceful Muslim that hasn't heard a single person ever and he's not planning it to hurt a single person ever but he fasts he goes to mosque all the time he spends a lot of money giving it to his mosque even though it this person is not hurting anybody he's there's still a victim here he himself is a victim here yes to victimize himself no you you choose to victimize him also by not giving him an option like me no no no I definitely want him to live in a society that gives him an option just hold on for a second sister Sheikh so you ask me how can I call myself a Jewish atheist I refer to it before but out but for your sake I'll repeat the example of the Greek person that can be a Greek atheist and he's still Greek even though he doesn't worship Zeus so I don't worship Jehovah but I'm still Jewish but he still great this is so better your sister shakes that Jew the word Jew refers to religion or an ethnicity or a culture somebody could be ethnic Jew and not a religious Jew some you know somebody could be a cultural Jew another religious Jew so it refers to three different things what was I asking you so you were telling me that what about victimizing the person what my response to you is my job is to make sure that that the society we live we live in will allow him a to be exposed to other ideas and make the decision and be to be able to leave his religion if that's what he wants here the people that I was though but I will not knock on my Muslim neighbor's door and say I got to talk to you about Quran because it's such bullshit I'm not gonna do we don't we don't go to them we we give them the chance to come to us that's why yes so definitely so but the thing is that we say and other people is that why can't you let people believe what they want I tell them if we don't give them the opportunity to be exposed to other reviews you're the person that is not letting them believe what they want because if they're exposed to only one idea and they choose it because they have only been exposed to one idea then that's not really a choice giving them a choice requires you to provide them with alternative options that's the real way to provide people with giving them the freedom to believe what they want when we tell them hey by the way guys have you considered that there might not be a good that's an invitation that's not forcing any content on people right and let people like oh now you're just like the Christians or the Muslims advocating for the religion or like we don't we are against Christians advocating Christianity which we're not we're not telling Muslims not to not advocate for Islam we just think we should they should advocate for Islam but they should also let us challenge them and I think that we are the people that challenge them and we think what we do is require a lot of people like let them believe what they want how are we forcing them not to believe what they want just because we're challenging their views and I'm not saying everybody should go out and challenge Islam but yeah but even if you're not or challenge Judaism or challenge Christianity but at least have some appreciation for people that do it even if you're not doing it yourself I mean yeah anyways I mean I see it I see it sorry do you agree with that I I agree I I just I'll give you an example of something that I I don't like with atheists or for example Dawkins I think it's very militant with his atheism and he's and he's regenerated so no III there are a lot of things I like about him nobody ISM is what I like about him yeah so that's how many times you wanna go my I say I say you know you said about good things good things in Islam you know it you know a Surat al-kahf Iran hey Julio he'll Kathy Rowe and Abudu Metabo Don so anyway the legume dean of ammonia Dean you have your religion I have mine my Arabic is good but anyway thank you thank you sister for sister something that for all the donations that's very nice of you but black only accumulated in his total bullshit by the way that was only when Islam when he was in a weak position even the Muslims acknowledge that of course yeah but now I want to some of the anti-semites here they probably trying to tease me by posting foreskin remarks things about foreskin so I can only I can only tell you that in Israel they are certain now it started there are Jews secular Jews and I think Jews that decided not to circumcise their kids and the this movement is growing and active so although you foreskin people if you think you're teasing me in any way it I know I don't honestly just enjoy your posting and and and leave me alone because I doesn't really teach me much III go beyond leaving me alone I want to actively change the minds of the people that even there was that are not harming anybody because you know you you know if you believe if you believe like in fortune-telling right or in the zodiac signs those are nonsense right and people say like well yeah but they're not people that believe in fortune-telling they're not harming anybody right and I will say yeah but but you fight bullshit wherever you see it because the people that believe in harmless evidence for that between harmless nonsense but the people that believe in harmless noise yes without ever they will believe in harmful ones and you also believe in harmful they will believe in harmful monsters I mean what I say is that the people that believe in fortune-telling and zodiac signs and all that stuff they if there are the same people that when people tell them vaccines cause autism they also they also start believing that and when it will begin when you start being harmful I I can see the general right you know if there were any you lost did the filter you could introduce it was already it was with the demanding evidence and demanding logic to back up an argument we can't be like oh I'll just get involved once this becomes harmful people if people if you don't if you don't teach people how to recognize nonsense from form from reality what argument are you gonna use to for them to it's too late that they don't have that filter anymore but when you come when you come and make an argument in the against a will in Judaism at least when you come and make an argument against the Jewish instruction religious instruction in the name of logic and you say guys this doesn't make sense because ABC and D leads to D whereas your words yours leads to e you're gonna the rabbi's the rabbis your no challenge for the rabbis because they're just gonna tell you look we cannot understand the logic of God the fact that you cannot perceive it and I cannot perceive it in our own limited human logic doesn't mean that it's not true his logic is far beyond ours and they say the same thing say the same thing yes so they're not you know you know yeah but but I know people that used to say say the same thing and now they're atheist so don't give up yes yeah so but basically I would start fighting nonsense when it's harmful if I if I may start fighting every every irrational nonsense I come across honestly I won't have much time for anything else I'm sorry okay sexually I think I think you're getting there from what I understand you're very busy fighting nonsense all the time no but I mean the biggest man says the most popular announces in the world is God so if you could teach people why this is why I have wrote the book why there is no good because I think that's the most popular nonsense if you take a you go after the nonsense that is the most mainstream and you know we need when people's you go after and and that's a nonsense that is the source of a whole bunch other nonsense you you don't if you go right at the source that's what I think anyways I think we've gone for too long thank you are saying you're very welcome a sister public I mean I agree with you always but I see that you have a good aura I mean despite your profanity oh thank you I see your soul and it's good do you know what it is well I don't agree with all this our and we must something wrong there no no I mean it but it's good it's a positive sentiment so thank you for that I appreciate you saying that I love some people yeah so the life chat they're not so positive our own said I don't know what happened we're being nice oh this is this one guy that just keeps saying shame I don't know who this guy's blue velvet saying this is why you are not chosen you've rejected God okay okay when I do feel like you're saying plug in your book in the middle of the chat I see you there I plugged my book why there is no god dude right in the middle of a chat yeah but well talking about plugging things guys if you are one of those Zionists people that wants to support us we we appreciate your you know support you the PayPal link and all the find us an atheist Republic come and if you're on YouTube the PayPal link and the patreon link is in the description if you're Illuminati or if you're the scientist you or if you're reptile people or aliens or whatever obviously we're spinning Zionist Jewish propaganda so supporter channel spaceman or one is saying keep rocking or manoa thank you B just saying go good go guys go sleep Christie's thanks so much Chris is very titus 232 220 yeah yeah we may be here for three hours right yes but Christy thank you so much for staying along that's very sweet of you go sleep boots price Beach prices well yeah Beach sick bay and Christian beach I know you guys hold back on removing all this nonsense in our lifetime at one point I want to have an entire discussion on anti-semitic views would you be interested in that yeah sure okay let's make all the people to me yes an Israeli Maxim yes a lot of the people in the left-half that think that we're ignoring them is because they love the anti-semitic reprinted I've said I think we're on our way to you know I didn't ignore you we we were we were talking about religion in Israel that's why we didn't address your comments but we invite you to come back one day and we want to address the Holocaust anti-jewish Jewish conspiracy theories and all of that and you guys bring all the facts and all your knowledge to us I hang on I don't think I'm going to bother myself with conspiracy theories because they just tell me I can discuss with you anti-semitism as a phenomena but don't expect me now to start explaining people why we're not trying to take over the world we're not going to waste my time with them can do you okay let's we could talk about that in another but do you know so can you also recommend to me and everybody like a somebody to go through every single one of these conspiracy theories but I think that would be an interesting discussion oh I'll have to think about if someone is willing to burden himself with I can't come come up with anyone off the top of my head I will just comment to you and to other people who are following us there are a lot of groups on the Facebook there in Hebrew for of atheists and secular so so you might want to pick for another discussion another at least Jew or you might want to try and make contact with them and yeah nobody scared of something Evan I want to know what yeah I'm scared of the truth maybe I'm scared of the truth you know love me yeah I think the same but don't you want need to prioritize which you which you put your limited energy to tackle the most harmful in it does is what I would say Alex I try to go to the root of the problem and but I do agree that we have to pick our battles but I think when you if you wait for a heart for our idea to be harmful you just basically you know you you know cutting off the branches I different I agree I agree with his approach and I think right now the most harmful religion is not Judaism or Christianity it's Islam maybe in another century I we I would focus presently on fighting another one but maybe that's my approach I totally agree with you did the most harmful religion right now is Islam but if you look at the people if you look at the people that are making the most change in the Islamic world is an ex-muslim movement it's not the P is the people that are telling Muslims that hey have you considered that this might be bullshit all of it yeah not none of the people that say like hey have you considered not blowing up people maybe this verse means something else right we for that going right at the source of the problem that they're saying hey maybe that maybe looking at the book as the source of all Authority is kind of bullshit those those are the people that are making a difference Muslim so we have them have a go we I can have a go for an hour at their at their reform movement if you want because the fact that the support that you say that you agree that the explicit of movement is making a bigger difference at the reform movement basically goes to my argument that targeting every targeting the problem at the source is the most effective way of going about it anyways this is turning into a different discussion you both are Jews you're both Jews arming someone tells us here yeah I am a secret you I don't mind people you know if you think that's an insult I'm not going to correct you because it's the same when people say like oh are me you're gay like I'm not gonna bother correcting you because I don't see that as it is so and now we're getting more insults of people like are mean is a Jew like why should i correct that well if I correct that it means that I see it as an insult Kodama pas de says they you made it you've altered our body knee well thank you very much but all the people that they think we're supported by the juice can you please all you let them know give send them a link to our PayPal because we we as we do need to support one time and it was waiting for your money by anyone else that also enjoyed this kind of discussions please support us either on patreon or on PayPal and link in the description we're doing it by the way I don't know if you'd notice we're doing a lot of new amazing projects we're starting to try and we're doing we have started a racist Republican Persian for Iranian atheist and we just got started in making our Arabic version as well for Ramallah so and also in Arabic version of atheist Republic we're going to tackle not just Islam but also Christianity we're gonna because a lot of Arabs are becoming Christian and we want to also fight I mean I know Islam is the main target but there's not that there's not that enough anti-christian content in Arabic so we want to also provide that as well anyways love you most when you look seems thank you I'm here thank you everyone thank you a I'd be happy to relate to our comments on Facebook if you want to comment on the video I might have time to answer that as well thank you Armand for the opportunity yeah we don't know yeah we're done and I just want to thank you as well because they took so much of your time no that's all right I thought we just in the middle and most mostly thank you to be and Christy for their oh yes absolutely great great job tolerating all this no cascading over anti-semitic voted Thank You didi as well all right

Miserable that the Europeana expelled the Jews from Europe and Russia. They did not other want them there. Now they are in isreal. And they are cleansing isreal of Christians and muslims . Mabey they would have done this to the European people instead if the Palistinians. We must ask is it a religion or s man made movement, zionism. Funded by aethiest bankers.

I support Israel’s right to exist because I think the real estate was lost. Move forward. Never support religious activists big projects and goals In the future. Religious justifications based on mythic reporting of historical events to do something can’t hold up over time.

Grandkid: Why did we do that in 1947?

Grandparent: PROPHESYYyyyyy, ZIONISM!

Grandkid: rolls eyes, becomes atheist.

Love or Hate Israel , it is not an authoritarian or totalitarian state and its policies are subject to the democratic will of its citizens and therefore can change unlike the many muslim autocracies surrounding it.

39:20
No, faisal did not only demand that the rights of the inhabitants of palestine be respected. He also added in writing that the agreement would only stand if all his demands were met.

(From wikipedia)
…Faisal signed the document in the same meeting, without consulting his advisors awaiting him in a separate room, but added a caveat in Arabic next to his signature,[3] such that Faisal considered the agreement was conditional on Palestine being within the area of Arab independence.[a] The Zionist Organization submitted the Agreement to the Paris Peace Conference without the caveat.[6]

Yoav Gelber described the document as "of propaganda value only", since it quickly became clear that Faisal's conditions would not be met.[7]

So there is a dodgy point when it comes to the agreement of arabs. They had agreed under conditions that were not met. However is this a reason not to establish a jewish state in palestine? Was the agreement of muslim arabs necessary? Under what law? What gave the arabs the right to chant "palestine is our land and jews are our dogs" when they started attacking the jews in 1920?

Israel is controlled by the religious parties. They have kept Bibi in power and are the root cause of some of the major problems with Israeli societies. They, along with most of the Islamic countries prove that when it comes to running the politics of the state, there is no place for religion. When countries overtly influence or are run by religious bodies, they create 2 classes of citizenship – the believers and the non-believers – and the non-believers are treated as second class in the eyes of the state. So although there are those that think Israel is a secular state, that is not the case. As to their right to be a "Jewish" state, this claim is bogus. Israel was founded by a political movement – Zionism, which used the biblical premise that the land was given to the Jews – is the main culprit in ensuring that there would always be turmoil as long as the state. Western European countries threw off the shackles of religion running states and ended centuries of conflict. It is long past time to end religious interference in running countries and get to all citizens be treating fairly and equally.

arman – Talmud is like I will take all of this discussion between you and will write it in a book – that is Talmud. that is all. only with rabbis which were not holy. so it even not tafsir also.

The number of dislikes to likes in what should be a more rational forum proves how important the state of Israel is. Long live Israel! (The Ultra Orthodox nutters excepted). And come on Armin, history is everything. Without it we have no identity. Deep down, wouldn't you like to reclaim the the once great Persian lands from the Islamic invaders one day?

Who cares about Jewish religion??
I sure don't!
I care about what the Zionist jews and Israel is doing to the world!
The NWO has nothing to do with religion they just use it, so we are at each others throats, divide and conquer!
Which is working well in the US because it seems most are religious, which makes them already delusional so it doesnt take much to push them over the edge!

If you are an Atheist and have the same rights as everyone else, and can vote, and own property, you are in a secular state.

Israel meets this criteria.

End. Of. Debate.

@34:00 I know this wasn't a serious argument, but…..

Armin says it's possible to make the case that part of Jewish identity is to live in exile, therefore its fitting that they live everywhere.

The same could be said about Muslims being persecuted. Just keep on persecuting them as in keeping with Islamic scripture….It's part of their identity. (

It just occurred to me: maybe that's why they do all the shitty things they do, then cry when anyone criticises them- so they can pretend the Quran was at least right about their "persecution"

Jewish rabais and islmaic mullahs sucking the blood from penises of children they have circumcised is the most disgusting thing i have ever seen .

Why so many dislikes? This was actually a very informative discussion. Just one thing, Armin. You know I love you, right? But please, do not interrupt your guests so much, especially when you're interviewing your "Mossad handler". 😛

The jewish roots goes back for over 5000 years and the jewish king david founded jerusalem for over 3000 years ago ! ! ! And before 1948 the land belonged to united kingdom and before that 400 years to the ottomans . . .

Shame to be that uneducated about israel . . .you make a clown of yourself with your bias brainwashed believes . . .try facts ! History https://youtu.be/4x8sdmHSpmg today https://youtu.be/c2NaiX-hvVQ israels action https://youtu.be/tN1MkAGuVyY the political situation https://youtu.be/j7Mupoo1At8 get educated ! Not fooled !

The name palestine was given by romans and it referes to the philistinians who was a seefolk from indoeurope ( near greece) and they have absolytely nothing to do with these filthy fake palestinian ! https://youtu.be/4x8sdmHSpmg and https://youtu.be/BHsqVB9nxFY

Israel is awesome ! The start up nation and the eight most powerfull contry in the world ! And every atheist most love it cause it represents wisdom,education,tech etc ! ! !

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