Jordan Peterson – Integrated Aggression vs Cowardice Disguised as Morality

Jordan Peterson - Integrated Aggression vs Cowardice Disguised as Morality
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31



I've been struggling with an idea recently that I was thinking maybe you'd be able to help me out with basically in a recent interview you talked about how myth is meant to reconcile inherent contradictions in reality right but but I'm sort of stuck between two mythological or psychoanalytic ideas that I think are both really important but they seem to have a inherent contradiction within them that I've been trying to figure out so on one hand you have this idea that there's times in your life where you have to identify things in yourself that are insufficient or there's a problem somehow that you have to kind of have a controlled burn or like a Phoenix like transformation where you discard part of yourself that doesn't fit or is not working but then on the other hand you have talked about this this Union idea where as you become really when you get older you mature by reincorporating things about yourself that you lost when you were younger or that you know you're trying to integrate your shadow or you're trying to find parts of your personality that that maybe you've been rejecting and trying to figure out how to bring them into into the folder in the hole so he's got this quote that I really like which is I'd rather behold and good right right so so on one hand you may identify something as a problem and you want to get rid of it or burn it off but then on the other hand it seems like the the path to being stronger is to figure out how to put everything together so there's that there's a one of the things young wrote about in his works on alchemy was an explanation of the prime alchemical dictum which was solve a coagula which meant dissolve and integrate right so so imagine this imagine that imagine you had a fairly hostile father who was not very well controlled in his aggression decent person other than that but let's say that and so your reaction is I'm never going to be aggressive and so you built a like a moral structure that's part of your personality and there's ability floating around outside of that did you you've denied an ethical you've denied any ethical what would you say you've stripped the idea of aggression of any ethical utility whatsoever okay so what happens this burns off and then that comes back up now you still have to integrate it so it's associated in some sense with Nietzsche's ideas morality as cowardice because one of nature's most trenchant critiques of traditional morality let's say is that most of what passes for morality isn't morality it's just cowardice it's not that I'm a good person and I don't hurt you it's that I'm afraid to hurt you and because I don't want to admit that I'm afraid to hurt you then I say I'm moral because then I can mask my essential fear and cowardice in a guise of morality and that happens far more often than you would think because harmless and moral are by no means the same thing so some of what you're burning off you can sit and this is where Freud was such a genius I think is because he concentrated on aggression and sexuality which are perhaps the two most difficult parts of a personality to integrate said that the the hyper simplified morality stops you from tapping into deeper recesses of your psyche and it's partly because there are primal forces it's not surprising that you don't want to have anything to do with them that you stay away from situations where they might make themselves manifest but the problem is by denying the worst in yourself in that manner suppressing it you preclude the possibility of the best because no one can be a good person without integrating their capacity for aggression because without that capacity aggression you cannot say no because no means if you really say it no means there isn't anything that you can do to me that will make me change my mind or or conversely it means I will play for higher stakes than you will and unless you've got your aggression integrated there isn't a chance you can say that and if you did no one would take you seriously because they'd know it was just a show so one of the most useful things that Jung did I think was to work on this idea of the integration of the shadow because he was really interested in the idea of evil right especially working with trying to parcel out what happened in Nazi Germany and during the Second World War what do you do with the part of you that's aggressive and and potentially malevolent do you just crush it that's the super ego response in some sense do you just put it behind you so to speak is that a possibility or do you admit to its existence and bring it into the game and that's see for Freud in some sense morality was super-ego clamping down on the it'd and they were fundamentally opposed both young and Piaget had a different idea and I think they were right it's like no no you invite the bad guys out to play and so you're an aggressive hockey player but it's disciplined aggression that makes you gives you access to the whole source of energy you wouldn't otherwise have and then with regards to sexuality it's like well untrammeled promiscuity doesn't constitute a virtue but neither does unavoidable virginity right in fact I think that's worse because it also masks itself with virtue it's like well you should be able to you should be able to do things that you wouldn't do that's that's like the definition of a genuinely moral person they could do it but they don't and then that's not cowardice and so that's you burn off the things that get in the way of that integration so when you say dissolve and integrate it be a good way to sort of bring the two ideas together that the burning off and the difficult process is necessary because the elements of yourself are structured together in a rigid way that is not working properly and that's what happens to Geppetto in the belly of the whale he's so caught in his presuppositions that he can't escape right and so Pinocchio represents the new force so it's very interesting so when you watch Pinocchio try to rescue him the first thing Geppetto does is confuse Pinocchio with a fish because he wants something to eat but Pinocchio is better than something to eat because he could rescue him so he doesn't need to eat and then Pinocchio wants to make a fire in Geppetto objects because he's gonna burn up all the furniture it's like we don't need the damn furniture if we're getting out of the whale you know and so so Geppetto and and he's old so that that that's that that's the rigid structure that's the old year that has to die off before the new year can be born it's a forest fire that allows for new growth and and that's how those things are put together and to see and it's useful to know too because if you burn something off you might think well there's nothing left it's like that's not true if it's dead wood then you have room for new growth and you want to be doing that on a fairly regular basis that's the that's that's the snake that sheds its skin and transforms itself right that's that's the death and resurrection from a psychological perspective it's exactly the same idea now we don't know the upper limit to that right because we don't know what a person would be like if they let everything that they could let go let go and only let in what was seemly let's say but you can see that's funny we don't know that to some degree you can see people very firm you can see people start to do that without that's not an rare experience and people improve very rapidly they can improve their lives very rapidly a lot of its low-hanging fruit like if you just stop doing really stupid things that you know are stupid your life improves a lot so and it frees you up it also means there's a there's an element there that's also associated with pride because people tend to take pride in who they are and that's a bad idea because that stops you from becoming who you could be because if you're proud of who you are you won't let that go when it's necessary you won't step away from it you know and then you end up being your own parody something like that that's also a very bad idea you want to be continually stepping away from your previous self and so big and I guess part of that too is that you you have to decide you know are you are you order or you chaos or you the process that mediates between them and if you're the process that mediates between them you you are the thing that transforms and that's the right attitude for human being because that's what we are we're the thing that voluntarily confronts chaos and transforms that's what we are and so for better or worse you know that's our deepest biological essence you might say and so you can let things go if you know that there's more growth to come so

Dr. Peterson you seem to know that the United States has a remote viewer that is causing chaos in every bodies life. Robin Cole and Shelly Cooper.I know some background on Shelly not much on Robin.

This is the west in a nutshell today. You can see it with Sargon of Akkad's "wouldnt even rape you tweet".

Integrated aggression ? Mine is well orchestrated aggression. Thankfully there is nothing cowardly about my morality.Thing is ,people are unable to deal with these two qualities of mine.😌😇💃

the explanations are lost in a forest of parables and metaphors…..pinocchio explicates the world of human nature…..his straight answers are never precise and concrete asnd individual….they are always general and metaphorical…..he teaches in a stream of parables…everything is 'like' something else….everything is a hypothetical construction, albeit forcefully expressed

This reminds me of A Clockwork Orange: "Goodness comes from within. Goodness is chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man."

Yes i could go out and knock the bottom out of many tramps at the bar.But i dont,and i wont because id rather do it with a woman i truly love.

I still don't understand how to cope with my shadow. Look, I have identified it. And I said to myself that I will try to incorporate my bad traits into my behaviour. Guess what? Being rude to everyone wasn't helpful. So how to do it? I must be missing something

When I was a child the school teachers taught us that when a classmate hit us it's brave to not fight. Based on how the men in my country (Sweden) are like I'd say my school wasn't the only one teaching that. Today muslims are trying to turn my country upside down it seems and no one stops them. Because we don't fight back when someone hit us

Here is what I think of Jordan Peterson.
Since the first vid I have noticed that he has a very logical approach to any argument and is kinda trying to stay objective.
He is always asking questions which probably came from him reading stuff from yong and nitze.
But lets start from the beginning.

Jordan was probably raised by religious christian parents,heck he may even went to a christian school.
Said environment instilled in him classic moral behaviors.
I bet his dream was to be like nitzhe or someone similar which is why he became a psychologist.

During classes and practice he gained more insight to how people react to things and how to manipulate them.
But he isnt using those skills for manipulation – he thinks he is helping people.
The reason why I say that is because he shows genuine emotions which btw actually almost made me cry.
I have a "power" of being able to place myself in other people positions on the screen and feel emotions they "feel".
(to awaken this power I guess I watched too many anime like one piece,fairy tail…)
In real life I have only really cried when my father died.
Didnt cry for my grandpa or grandma and was 100% sure I wouldnt cry yet I did.
Anyways back to the story.

What I am trying to lead to is that mr peterson is looking too much into any content in hopes it somehow correlates with his previous "indoctrination" to christianity.
I put it in quotation marks because jordan peterson doesnt believe in the bible and god,but he does believe in the values and morality he was taught by said religion.
Deep down he might be afraid of death as all of us and want god to exist,but for the most part I do think he looks at god as an agnostic would.
The reason why he is always not willing to answer questions about god and if he is religious is because he is and he isnt.
Maybe the solution would be to call himself agnostic even though I dislike agnostics more than theists because I do think agnostics believe in god but seek acceptance from everyone and everyone might not be religious or from same religion and or maybe they dont want to deal with the church etc part of it.

Peterson may have "built" a new world inside his mind which doesnt reflect reality,but said world is set up logically and is being reinforced by parts of real reality.
I am thinking maybe a variation of that thing where you copy what other people are doing,but reversed.

He is being praised as someone that helps people,but is he really?

Whats the antidote if you're hyper aggressive and don't want to stroke out because you love fried chicken a little bit (alot) too much?

So is he suggesting you should swing at someone if its morally warranted? How about the consequences – like getting charged? That would ruin your life. You know you're capable of aggression, but are afraid to use it because there are consequences.

There is an assumption that the shadow to be integrated is always an aggressive and powerful personality. Isn't cowardice and weakness another form of shadow?

untrampled promiscuity does not constitute virtue
is this a known phrase? i would really appreciate any reference

so true what he said about the pride in self. Your ego wants to remain proud, and if it is why would it change or develop? Pride really is an enemy

If you embrace evil then you simply don't have good intentions. Once you are labeled a bad guy your life gets very difficult.

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